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Interfaith Dialogue
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 28 February 2013 at 6:46pm
Salam Webber,

Sorry for the late reply. Been busy for a while.
Originally posted by Webber


If you insist this is talking about Muhammad then you have to believe he came in his own name, not in the name of Allah. I ask again, does this sound like Muhammad?
Muhammad came with his own name as a Messenger of God, with a clear message from God Almighty. Btw, we Muslims have this habit of saying "Bismillahirahmaneeraheem" - In the Name of Allah Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Originally posted by Webber

You'll have to show me where God decided it was a good idea and adapted it.

I did'nt know that Chrisitans believe in purgatory. It is not exactly what it meant. Maybe for a clearer idea you can go here - http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/faith-and-worship/islamic-creed/167126-heaven-and-hell-permanent-or-temporary.html

Originally posted by Webber

I'll go along with supposed terrorist, but let's talk about a real suicide bomber for a second. First the kalimah shahadah, the the Allah scream, then the suicide. The sin comes after the call-out, bye-bye.

I am not God, I cannot judge a person's intention, especially if I am not related to him or her whatsoever. Remember Allah is Al-Aleem. Al-Ghafur - He knows the real reason for this guy's action. He is Al-Khabir - All Aware. Al-Adl - Most Just.

*{Certainly, Allah has cursed the unbelievers and prepared for them a blazing fire to dwell therein forever, they shall find neither protector nor helper. On the day when their faces are turned about in the fire, they shall say, "Would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!"}* (Al-Ahzab 33: 64-66)
May Allah bless you with hidayah.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 28 February 2013 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by Webber

As for all the people who died pre Jesus, I guess you could ask the same about all who died pre Muhammad.

Assalamu Alaik Webber,

Unlike the christians that claim that Jesus is God, muslims don't believe that Mohammad (pbuh) is God or part of God. Christians claim that because God loves us, He decided to reveal Himself and lived amongst those people for a while then volunteered to die for everyone. But God never revealed Himself before that. So what about the people before the arrival of God (ie. Jesus)? Were they aware about God's form (3 persons in 1) and about the diety of Jesus? Obviously they didn't. Therefore what will thier fate be? Were they not loved? Maybe they are excused because the truth came after thier time. Can that be?

On the other hand, muslims believe that all nations before Mohammad had the message sent to them through previous prophets and messengers. That Mohammad was a man, like previous messengers, and that he recieved the final message for all man kind. The message was always the same, to worship Allah and non other.

And those who disbelieved say, "Why has a sign not been sent down to him from his Lord?" You are only a warner, and for every people is a guide. (7)

And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (4)

It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error (2)
 
I get your point, but as you know, I'm not a trinitarian, so now how would you answer me?
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 28 February 2013 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

Salam Webber,

Sorry for the late reply. Been busy for a while.
 
No worries, real life has a way of getting in the way.

 
If you insist this is talking about Muhammad then you have to believe he came in his own name, not in the name of Allah. I ask again, does this sound like Muhammad?[/QUOTE]Muhammad came with his own name as a Messenger of God, with a clear message from God Almighty. Btw, we Muslims have this habit of saying "Bismillahirahmaneeraheem" - In the Name of Allah Most Gracious, Most Merciful.[/quote]
 
In the name of Allah, not in the name of Muhammad? That is what the text refers to is self appointed prophets using their own name, not the name of Allah.


I did'nt know that Chrisitans believe in purgatory. It is not exactly what it meant. Maybe for a clearer idea you can go here - http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/faith-and-worship/islamic-creed/167126-heaven-and-hell-permanent-or-temporary.html
Some do, some don't, it's all part of which denomination suits you best, Ermm


I am not God, I cannot judge a person's intention, especially if I am not related to him or her whatsoever. Remember Allah is Al-Aleem. Al-Ghafur - He knows the real reason for this guy's action. He is Al-Khabir - All Aware. Al-Adl - Most Just.
I call cop-out. Allah knows best but has given very clear understanding in the Bible and the Quran what suicide is worth.

May Allah bless you with hidayah.
 
Thank you. No idea what it means, but know you enough to appreciate it.
 
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 01 March 2013 at 5:22pm
Hi Rational,

Quote: Unlike the christians that claim that Jesus is God, muslims don't believe that Mohammad (pbuh) is God or part of God.
So what about the people before the arrival of Jesus? --- Therefore what will thier fate be? Were they not loved? Maybe they are excused because the truth came after thier time. Can that be?

On the other hand, muslims believe that all nations before Mohammad had the message sent to them through previous prophets and messengers. That Mohammad was a man, like previous messengers, and that he recieved the final message for all man kind. The message was always the same, to worship Allah and non other.

Response: --- Even though Webber and I have said we are not trinitarians, ---because that was a doctrine that came out of a Church meeting in 325 AD, and not out of the Scripture, --- you seem to enjoy using that misinformation in your posts, which doesn’t allow you to think any other way.
Jesus came from God, but was not God. --- God was ‘manifested’ in different ways throughout the Scriptures, but in the New Testament God sent Jesus to be the Messenger of the New Covenant, and the Message was the Gospel, the Good News of Salvation, --- This came through Jesus Himself, --- who was not only a Messenger, but the Messiah and Savior, through whom we can obtain that salvation.

--- In saying “The message was always the same, to worship God,” --- this verifies that the former prophets had the same message as Muhammad brought, and so for those who believed and worshipped God, even before Jesus came, God must have had a plan of salvation for them, as well, don’t you think?

When you say “Muhammad had received the final message for all mankind.” --- How was it different than the message that you say ‘was the same message for all the prophets?’ --- Did Muhammad introduce any new laws in the Quran that we should know about?

Concerning previous plans of salvation:
It appears that God always loved his people and drew them unto Himself, so He would have a plan for their salvation, though it would have to wait for a ‘resurrection.’
From the time of Adam and Eve on earth, they were told to worship God and obey Him. --- And the first guide was their ‘conscience’ within.
It would seem that for the first approximately 2000 years, the people would be ‘saved’ by Faith in God, worshiping Him, and following their conscience, which was a ‘God awareness’ that was with them, --- even as it has been with mankind ever since.

From the time of Abraham for the next approximately 2000 years, men were ‘saved’ by Faith in God, worshiping Him, and being obedient to the Law (that came at different times to Abraham, but mainly through Moses.)

--- However, in these 4000 years, including the time of Noah, --- the people that were righteous, were not taken to heaven, but remained in ‘death.’
Sad as it may have seemed, Satan had succeeded in spoiling God’s plan, so the dead all had to wait for a 'resurrection,' even as we believe will happen at the end of the Age.

This is interesting to think about in the Book of Daniel 12:
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

(Enough for now)


Placid

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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2013 at 7:02am
Originally posted by Webber

I get your point, but as you know, I'm not a trinitarian, so now how would you answer me?

That's why I was specific when I said "Unlike the christians that claim that Jesus is God". I'm talking about those christians.

My initial post question:

"What about all the people that lived before Jesus was born? Did Jesus love them? They didn't know about Jesus so will they inherit the kingdom of heaven?"
 

... was not for you. It was for Caringheart, a trinitarian.

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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2013 at 8:37am
Assalm Alaik Placid,

Originally posted by Placid

Even though Webber and I have said we are not trinitarians... you seem to...

Placid, did I direct my initial post to you and Webber? No. Then why are you saying this? My initial post was for Caringheart, a trinitarian. I hope this is clear.

Originally posted by Placid

...you seem to enjoy using that misinformation in your posts...

Placid, you have accused me, you said that I "enjoy using that misinformation". You've made an allegation about me even though you have nothing to prove it. You simply decided to throw that in. So you know, I'm not a person that enjoys using misinformation. I wouldn't use misinformation, period. You say many things that I don't agree with, but I don't claim that you "enjoy using misinformation".

Originally posted by Placid

...which doesn’t allow you to think any other way.

What is it that doesn’t allow me to think any other way? The misinformation? And what is the way I should be thinking? Your way?

Originally posted by Placid

In saying “The message was always the same, to worship God,” --- this verifies that the former prophets had the same message as Muhammad brought, and so for those who believed and worshipped God, even before Jesus came, God must have had a plan of salvation for them, as well, don’t you think?

That is what I'm saying. And since you claimed in another thread that you believe that the Quran is sent to Mohammad (pbuh) from God (saw) through Gabriel (as), therefore the Quran is the final revelation from God. Then what's stopping you from following the final revelation and declaring that "Mohammad is the final messenger from God"?

Originally posted by Placid

When you say “Muhammad had received the final message for all mankind.” --- How was it different than the message that you say ‘was the same message for all the prophets?’

The core of the message was always the same, to worship Allah and non other. That is the fundamental part of the message. The differences were in the examples and the lessons that were passed with every messenger, and was relayed through the experiences, trials and tribulations that the prophets had to endure for us to learn from. The final message in the Quran isn't only from the time of Mohammad (pbuh), it's an account of all the prophets and messengers, starting from Adam (as). It's a blessing from our Creator. There was always one message, that Allah is One and not to worship anything other than Him (subhanaho wa ta'ala).

We relate to you, [O Muhammad], the best of stories in what We have revealed to you of this Qur'an although you were, before it, among the unaware. (3)

That is why prophets are given high status. They were chosen to take part in this message and they did so by going through hardship, suffering, trails, tribulations... That is what they did for the sake of Allah (subhanaho wa ta'la). And with the wisdom and blessings of Allah, they left knowledge for us to learn from.

Originally posted by Placid

Did Muhammad introduce any new laws in the Quran that we should know about?

Yes, stop eating pig.


Edited by Rational - 02 March 2013 at 3:03pm
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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2013 at 9:14am
Originally posted by Placid

you seem to enjoy using that misinformation in your posts

Placid, please show us, from my posts, where I use misinformation and I enjoy using it. We're all waiting.


Edited by Rational - 02 March 2013 at 9:15am
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2013 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Rational


Originally posted by Placid

Did Muhammad introduce any new laws in the Quran that we should know about?

Yes, stop eating pig.

Greetings Rational,

That's actually not new... it's old... from the Torah.  Smile

Salaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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