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Kristin
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Posted: 21 February 2013 at 2:06pm

In Islam the worst of a Muslim is still better than the best of a non Muslim. What is the reason? Because even how bad that Muslim is, he still believes that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His Messenger. That person even though goes to hell at first, he would one day be transferred to heaven due to the Mercy of Allah Ar-Raheem Most Merciful.

So then, Nur Ilahi.......Did Mother Theresa get to heaven before Muhammed Atta, or the other way around?

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Nur_Ilahi

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Posted: 22 February 2013 at 1:59am

Dear Kristin,

Originally posted by Kristin

So then, Nur Ilahi.......Did Mother Theresa get to heaven before Muhammed Atta, or the other way around?

Muhammed Atta the supposed terrorist that was accused of 911? Well, in my opinion, if he is a Muslim and died as a Muslim, especially if he were executed by the authorities, meaning he knows when he will die, then most probably his place would be in heaven because he will have the chance to say the kalimah shahadah in his last moments before death.

While Mother Theresa if she died denying the Oneness of God, then only God knows. Anyway, judgement lies in the hands of God. He is Al-Alim - All Knowing and He is Al-Ghafur - Most Forgiving.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 24 February 2013 at 1:03pm

This makes it easier for me to see why muslims do not understand Jesus. It seems that muslims have an excuse for all their behavior, and so due to their own beliefs, by transference they assume this is the belief by followers of Jesus.
Ermm

Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever

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Rational

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Posted: 25 February 2013 at 6:40am

Originally posted by Caringheart

This makes it easier for me to see why muslims do not understand Jesus. It seems that muslims have an excuse for all their behavior, and so due to their own beliefs, by transference they assume this is the belief by followers of Jesus.
Ermm

I am a non-believer in the deity of Jesus (as) and in the idea that he died for my sins.

Will I, a non-believer, inherit the kingdom of heaven?

What about all the people that lived before Jesus was born? Did Jesus love them? They didn't know about Jesus so will they inherit the kingdom of heaven?

Edited by Rational - 25 February 2013 at 6:44am

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Caringheart

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Posted: 25 February 2013 at 12:58pm

Greetings Rational,

Good questions. I was actually just pondering those questions myself, this morning before I got up.

I have sort of a partial answer to your first question...
You will believe in Jesus when you meet Him on judgement day.

As to the rest... I am pondering. Smile

The thing is I don't believe that just believing in Jesus(belief in God) gains admittance to heaven. I believe actions matter. Actions that come from a true heart and not just for show. God will judge the heart. Actions must be a reflection of a true heart... and if the heart is true it will show in the actions. Belief in Jesus, (love for God, because of the great the Love He has shown for us in the giving of His Son), leads me to good actions. Jesus leads me to the Father through Love, the love He first showed me.
¹⁶For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son

Jesus may very well say to anyone, 'You never knew me'... You only proclaimed to know me by proclaiming my name, but you did not do the things you were commanded to do... in your heart you never truly belonged to the Father.

¹⁹We love Him, because he first loved us.

²⁰If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

²¹And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Salaam,
CH

Edited by Caringheart - 25 February 2013 at 1:24pm

Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever

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Webber

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Posted: 26 February 2013 at 8:36am

Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

shall come in his own name, him ye will receive"

Originally posted by Webber

Does that sound like Muhammad to you?
Jesus was talking about a false prophet, not Muhammad.

If it was not Prophet Muhamamd, did they receive the false prophet?

Which false prophet would you like it to be? It's not like we've gone without.

If you insist this is talking about Muhammad then you have to believe he came in his own name, not in the name of Allah. I ask again, does this sound like Muhammad?

Christians, even trinitarians believe that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but God and Jesus, His Messenger.

I didn't know Muslims believed in pergatory. Is this in the Quran?

The Bible teaches we get one life and one judgement. As I see it, Pergatory is a man made second chance. You'll have to show me where God decided it was a good idea and adapted it.

I'll go along with supposed terrorist, but let's talk about a real suicide bomber for a second. First the kalimah shahadah, the the Allah scream, then the suicide. The sin comes after the call-out, bye-bye.

While Mother Theresa if she died denying the Oneness of God, then only God knows.

I doubt she died denying the oneness of God, I'd believe she died believing in the trinity, but these two are not the same.

Anyway, judgement lies in the hands of God.

Ahhh, the one liner that should have stopped this thread after the first post.

These are good questions.

The book of James had a lot of contraveresy before it was put in the NT for the same reason. James obviously a knew his brother Jesus to be a Prophet yet human, not God. Wonder where a disciple would be about now.

In the eyes of stodgey Christians you may be an unbeliever, but we know better. The same straight path has been revealed in both our books and we understand it to be the seeking and surrender to God's will.

As for all the people who died pre Jesus, I guess you could ask the same about all who died pre Muhammad.

I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26

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Caringheart

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Posted: 27 February 2013 at 11:02am

"The same straight path has been revealed in both our books and we understand it to be the seeking and surrender to God's will."
Thumbs%20Up

Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever

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Rational

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Posted: 28 February 2013 at 4:36pm

Originally posted by Webber

As for all the people who died pre Jesus, I guess you could ask the same about all who died pre Muhammad.

Assalamu Alaik Webber,

Unlike the christians that claim that Jesus is God, muslims don't believe that Mohammad (pbuh) is God or part of God. Christians claim that because God loves us, He decided to reveal Himself and lived amongst those people for a while then volunteered to die for everyone. But God never revealed Himself before that. So what about the people before the arrival of God (ie. Jesus)? Were they aware about God's form (3 persons in 1) and about the diety of Jesus? Obviously they didn't. Therefore what will thier fate be? Were they not loved? Maybe they are excused because the truth came after thier time. Can that be?

On the other hand, muslims believe that all nations before Mohammad had the message sent to them through previous prophets and messengers. That Mohammad was a man, like previous messengers, and that he recieved the final message for all man kind. The message was always the same, to worship Allah and non other.

And those who disbelieved say, "Why has a sign not been sent down to him from his Lord?" You are only a warner, and for every people is a guide. (7)

And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (4)

It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error (2)

Edited by Rational - 28 February 2013 at 4:58pm

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Topic: well behaved non believer vs bad behaved believer
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Author	Message
Kristin Female Christian Starter. Joined: 19 February 2013 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Posted: 21 February 2013 at 2:06pm
	In Islam the worst of a Muslim is still better than the best of a non Muslim. What is the reason? Because even how bad that Muslim is, he still believes that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His Messenger. That person even though goes to hell at first, he would one day be transferred to heaven due to the Mercy of Allah Ar-Raheem Most Merciful. So then, Nur Ilahi.......Did Mother Theresa get to heaven before Muhammed Atta, or the other way around?
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Nur_Ilahi Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1031	Posted: 22 February 2013 at 1:59am
	Dear Kristin, *Originally posted by Kristin* So then, Nur Ilahi.......Did Mother Theresa get to heaven before Muhammed Atta, or the other way around? Muhammed Atta the supposed terrorist that was accused of 911? Well, in my opinion, if he is a Muslim and died as a Muslim, especially if he were executed by the authorities, meaning he knows when he will die, then most probably his place would be in heaven because he will have the chance to say the kalimah shahadah in his last moments before death. While Mother Theresa if she died denying the Oneness of God, then only God knows. Anyway, judgement lies in the hands of God. He is Al-Alim - All Knowing and He is Al-Ghafur - Most Forgiving.
	Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 24 February 2013 at 1:03pm
	In Islam the worst of a Muslim is still better than the best of a non Muslim. What is the reason? Because even how bad that Muslim is, he still believes that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His Messenger. That person even though goes to hell at first, he would one day be transferred to heaven due to the Mercy of Allah Ar-Raheem Most Merciful. This makes it easier for me to see why muslims do not understand Jesus. It seems that muslims have an excuse for all their behavior, and so due to their own beliefs, by transference they assume this is the belief by followers of Jesus.
	Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever
	IP Logged

Rational Senior Member Joined: 28 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 180	Posted: 25 February 2013 at 6:40am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* This makes it easier for me to see why muslims do not understand Jesus. It seems that muslims have an excuse for all their behavior, and so due to their own beliefs, by transference they assume this is the belief by followers of Jesus. I am a non-believer in the deity of Jesus (as) and in the idea that he died for my sins. Will I, a non-believer, inherit the kingdom of heaven? What about all the people that lived before Jesus was born? Did Jesus love them? They didn't know about Jesus so will they inherit the kingdom of heaven? Edited by Rational - 25 February 2013 at 6:44am
	الله
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 25 February 2013 at 12:58pm
	Greetings Rational, Good questions. I was actually just pondering those questions myself, this morning before I got up. I have sort of a partial answer to your first question... You will believe in Jesus when you meet Him on judgement day. As to the rest... I am pondering. The thing is I don't believe that just believing in Jesus(belief in God) gains admittance to heaven. I believe actions matter. Actions that come from a true heart and not just for show. God will judge the heart. Actions must be a reflection of a true heart... and if the heart is true it will show in the actions. Belief in Jesus, (love for God, because of the great the Love He has shown for us in the giving of His Son), leads me to good actions. Jesus leads me to the Father through Love, the love He first showed me. ¹⁶For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son Jesus may very well say to anyone, 'You never knew me'... You only proclaimed to know me by proclaiming my name, but you did not do the things you were commanded to do... in your heart you never truly belonged to the Father. ¹⁹We love Him, because he first loved us. ²⁰If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? ²¹And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. Salaam, CH Edited by Caringheart - 25 February 2013 at 1:24pm
	Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever
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Webber Senior Member Joined: 09 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 112	Posted: 26 February 2013 at 8:36am
	*Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi* *shall come in his own name, him ye will receive"* *Originally posted by Webber* Does that sound like Muhammad to you? Jesus was talking about a false prophet, not Muhammad. If it was not Prophet Muhamamd, did they receive the false prophet? Which false prophet would you like it to be? It's not like we've gone without. If you insist this is talking about Muhammad then you have to believe he came in his own name, not in the name of Allah. I ask again, does this sound like Muhammad? In Islam the worst of a Muslim is still better than the best of a non Muslim. What is the reason? Because even how bad that Muslim is, he still believes that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His Messenger. That person even though goes to hell at first, he would one day be transferred to heaven due to the Mercy of Allah Ar-Raheem Most Merciful. Christians, even trinitarians believe that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but God and Jesus, His Messenger. I didn't know Muslims believed in pergatory. Is this in the Quran? The Bible teaches we get one life and one judgement. As I see it, Pergatory is a man made second chance. You'll have to show me where God decided it was a good idea and adapted it. Muhammed Atta the supposed terrorist that was accused of 911? Well, in my opinion, if he is a Muslim and died as a Muslim, especially if he were executed by the authorities, meaning he knows when he will die, then most probably his place would be in heaven because he will have the chance to say the kalimah shahadah in his last moments before death. I'll go along with supposed terrorist, but let's talk about a real suicide bomber for a second. First the kalimah shahadah, the the Allah scream, then the suicide. The sin comes after the call-out, bye-bye. While Mother Theresa if she died denying the Oneness of God, then only God knows. I doubt she died denying the oneness of God, I'd believe she died believing in the trinity, but these two are not the same. Anyway, judgement lies in the hands of God. Ahhh, the one liner that should have stopped this thread after the first post. I am a non-believer in the deity of Jesus (as) and in the idea that he died for my sins. Will I, a non-believer, inherit the kingdom of heaven? What about all the people that lived before Jesus was born? Did Jesus love them? They didn't know about Jesus so will they inherit the kingdom of heaven? These are good questions. The book of James had a lot of contraveresy before it was put in the NT for the same reason. James obviously a knew his brother Jesus to be a Prophet yet human, not God. Wonder where a disciple would be about now. In the eyes of stodgey Christians you may be an unbeliever, but we know better. The same straight path has been revealed in both our books and we understand it to be the seeking and surrender to God's will. As for all the people who died pre Jesus, I guess you could ask the same about all who died pre Muhammad.
	I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 27 February 2013 at 11:02am
	"The same straight path has been revealed in both our books and we understand it to be the seeking and surrender to God's will."
	Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever
	IP Logged

Rational Senior Member Joined: 28 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 180	Posted: 28 February 2013 at 4:36pm
	*Originally posted by Webber* As for all the people who died pre Jesus, I guess you could ask the same about all who died pre Muhammad. Assalamu Alaik Webber, Unlike the christians that claim that Jesus is God, muslims don't believe that Mohammad (pbuh) is God or part of God. Christians claim that because God loves us, He decided to reveal Himself and lived amongst those people for a while then volunteered to die for everyone. But God never revealed Himself before that. So what about the people before the arrival of God (ie. Jesus)? Were they aware about God's form (3 persons in 1) and about the diety of Jesus? Obviously they didn't. Therefore what will thier fate be? Were they not loved? Maybe they are excused because the truth came after thier time. Can that be? On the other hand, muslims believe that all nations before Mohammad had the message sent to them through previous prophets and messengers. That Mohammad was a man, like previous messengers, and that he recieved the final message for all man kind. The message was always the same, to worship Allah and non other. And those who disbelieved say, "Why has a sign not been sent down to him from his Lord?" You are only a warner, and for every people is a guide. (7) And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (4) It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error (2) Edited by Rational - 28 February 2013 at 4:58pm
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