Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: CHRISTIANS:FORGIVE EVERYBODY THEIR SINS Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 5 Next >>
Author Message
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1629
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2013 at 3:19pm
Greetings Mahdi,

No I don't consider you to be rude, not by your simply questioning.  Now I understand.  Here we are once again talking about religious practice and of a particular church, namely the Catholic church with its practice of confession to a priest.

Confession was an important thing taught by the early apostles.  Confession is a first step to repentance, and it is in repentance that we receive God's forgiveness.

This is what was taught by
James, the half-brother of Jesus, and John, the beloved Apostle...
so two people who were very close to Jesus and what He taught.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.  (James)
and,
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  (John)
So while it may appear so to outsiders, it is not man that is forgiving the sins, it is the sinner making the confession, seeking to repent, and God's grace to forgive. 

I think this is not much different than what muslims believe... that God forgives their sins when they sincerely ask and repent... Am I correct in this?
 
The teaching of Jesus you will see takes it a step further... that in order for the repentance to be genuine we must be willing to confess sins one to another.  This is a much harder thing to do and much more cleansing of the soul.  It is the purging of the evil that is allowed to live within when we do not acknowledge it.  In not acknowledging it to another it is easy to deceive ourselves and deny the sin and fool ourselves into believing we live for God.

Hope this helps.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 05 February 2013 at 3:23pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Mahdi The Seeke
Male 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 260
Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 4:30am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Mahdi,No I don't consider you to be rude, not by your simply questioning.  Now I understand.  Here we are once again talking about religious practice and of a particular church, namely the Catholic church with its practice of confession to a priest.Confession was an important thing taught by the early apostles.  Confession is a first step to repentance, and it is in repentance that we receive God's forgiveness.This is what was taught byJames, the half-brother of Jesus, and John, the beloved Apostle... so two people who were very close to Jesus and what He taught.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.  (James)
and,
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  (John)
So while it may appear so to outsiders, it is not man that is forgiving the sins, it is the sinner making the confession, seeking to repent, and God's grace to forgive.  I think this is not much different than what muslims believe... that God forgives their sins when they sincerely ask and repent... Am I correct in this?  The teaching of Jesus you will see takes it a step further... that in order for the repentance to be genuine we must be willing to confess sins one to another.  This is a much harder thing to do and much more cleansing of the soul.  It is the purging of the evil that is allowed to live within when we do not acknowledge it.  In not acknowledging it to another it is easy to deceive ourselves and deny the sin and fool ourselves into believing we live for God.Hope this helps.Salaam,Caringheart




in this case, the catholics seem to be following the Bible more closely since their belief is based on the Bible on this point. since the basis of power to forgive sins comes from the Holy Spirit and all christians have it, then they should all be able to forgive sins, according to the Bible.
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1629
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Webber

Lol, Sorry Caringheart. I'm sure everything I say is irrelevent as well. We are not here to explain our beliefs but to defend the Catholics.
 
I'm not looking it up. What Catholics do is irrelevent to me. Try a little Sunni hadith on Mahdi the seeker and encourage him to explain it until it makes sense.
 


Hi Webber,

It's funny, now that your comment has appeared on the forum I realize something.
I thought Mahdi was asking a question...
what did I think was irrelevant...
and so I answered him.

Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1629
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke


in this case, the catholics seem to be following the Bible more closely since their belief is based on the Bible on this point. since the basis of power to forgive sins comes from the Holy Spirit and all christians have it, then they should all be able to forgive sins, according to the Bible.

Greetings Mahdi,

If you forgive someone who has trespassed against you, have you not just forgiven them their sin?



Edited by Caringheart - 06 February 2013 at 10:14pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
bunter
Male 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 March 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 123
Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 07 February 2013 at 5:33am
The Bible teaches clearly that all men, both living and dead, saved and unsaved, must give an account to Christ. The Apostle Peter, in his great sermon in the house of Cornelius, said “that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead” (Acts 10:42). Later, in his First Epistle, Peter wrote that Christians “shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick (the living) and the dead” (1 Peter 4:5). 

Believers never need fear a condemnatory judgment for sin. For every Christian this judgment is already past. Jesus reassures us by His own word: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to (John 5:24). To this the Apostle Paul adds: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). 

Some scurrilous people have argued this is a licence to go on sinning but that is a total lie. How can anyone who is given such a salvation abuse God by not thereafter striving for a holy life. Indeed we read "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." (Hebrews 12:1)

In summary, for those who have absorbed Jesus's message, Christians confess their sins because they are forgiven not in order to obtain forgiveness.
IP IP Logged
Empiricist
Male Christian
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 26 February 2012
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 47
Quote Empiricist Replybullet Posted: 08 February 2013 at 8:29pm
Mahdi the hypocrite, God knows your heart.  I can forgive this.  That does not mean God does.  The disciples were given the power to forgive sins IN THE  NAME OF JESUS (not said but not needed to be said).   If it was so simple to refute there would be no Christians.  Do you think us all *****s?  You are practicing legalism as the Pharisees, as do all Muslims.  You think if you pray at the proper times, and follow all the rules, and maybe kill a few Christians, that you go to heaven and are given virgins to have sex with????  And you actually believe this hogwash?   Just another Pharisee, hypocrite.  God knows your  heart.
IP IP Logged
Mahdi The Seeke
Male 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 260
Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2013 at 5:52am
Originally posted by Empiricist

Mahdi the hypocrite, God knows your heart.  I can forgive this.  That does not mean God does.  The disciples were given the power to forgive sins IN THE  NAME OF JESUS (not said but not needed to be said).   If it was so simple to refute there would be no Christians.  Do you think us all *****s?  You are practicing legalism as the Pharisees, as do all Muslims.  You think if you pray at the proper times, and follow all the rules, and maybe kill a few Christians, that you go to heaven and are given virgins to have sex with????  And you actually believe this hogwash?   Just another Pharisee, hypocrite.  God knows your  heart.
calm down brother.
IP IP Logged
Mahdi The Seeke
Male 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 260
Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2013 at 6:06am
Originally posted by bunter

The Bible teaches clearly that all men, both living and dead, saved and unsaved, must give an account to Christ. The Apostle Peter, in his great sermon in the house of Cornelius, said “that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead” (Acts 10:42). Later, in his First Epistle, Peter wrote that Christians “shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick (the living) and the dead” (1 Peter 4:5). 

Believers never need fear a condemnatory judgment for sin. For every Christian this judgment is already past. Jesus reassures us by His own word: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to (John 5:24). To this the Apostle Paul adds: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). 

Some scurrilous people have argued this is a licence to go on sinning but that is a total lie. How can anyone who is given such a salvation abuse God by not thereafter striving for a holy life. Indeed we read "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." (Hebrews 12:1)

In summary, for those who have absorbed Jesus's message, Christians confess their sins because they are forgiven not in order to obtain forgiveness.
funny how the next few verses say the opposite of what you believe about john 5:24. you said Believers never need fear a condemnatory judgment for sin. For every Christian this judgment is already past. Jesus reassures us by His own word: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to (John 5:24).
the next few verses actually say you have to do good deeds to gain life.

24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
Please try to read carefully and read the whole passage/context for better understanding.
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 5 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com