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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Rational

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

You can't be a muslim if you don't believe in the messenger of Allah, Mohammad (pbuh), the seal of all the prophets. The Quran is clear.

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. Those who are with him are harsh against the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (48:29)

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men. He is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets. Allah has knowledge of all things."
(33:40)


I can't be submitted to God if I don't believe in Muhammad?  What does Muhammad bring that the other prophets did not teach?

So even though the qu'ran says that all prophets are equal and are all to be honored in what they teach,
it also says that the only prophets teachings that count for anything are those of Muhammad.
Muhammad negates Jesus and the teaching of all the other prophets.
Do you see the contradiction and the problem?
You can't honor the prophets if you don't know what they taught,
and if Muhammad was going to say the scriptures were false then he needed to bring the fullness of correction... not to just say it was false, because if the muslims are to listen to Muhammad they must follow what the earlier prophets taught, yet he gives them no way to know what the former prophets taught, and thus leaves them with little guidance.  This does not sound like what God would do.  Muhammad leans on the guidance of the earlier prophets and yet denies his people where to find this guidance without him.


Edited by Caringheart - 28 January 2013 at 4:14pm
Let us seek Truth together
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 4:08pm
Muslim is meant to mean submitted to God.
How do you measure whether a person is submitted to God?
What defines a person as submitted to God?
As far as I can see the shahada is only words...
it is actions that show the true nature of the soul.
So is it the words that deem one worthy to be called 'submitted to God'?
or is it actions that deem one an example of one submitted to God?


Edited by Caringheart - 28 January 2013 at 4:09pm
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aka2x2
 
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Quote aka2x2 Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2013 at 1:30am
Greetings Caringheart,
I do not intend to defend Islam or debate your belief system versus mine. I felt you had asked a genuine question and I answered you accordingly. Sorry my answers added to your confusion.
Good luck with your search.

Respectfully
aka2x2
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2013 at 9:20am
Originally posted by aka2x2

Greetings Caringheart,
I do not intend to defend Islam or debate your belief system versus mine. I felt you had asked a genuine question and I answered you accordingly. Sorry my answers added to your confusion.
Good luck with your search.


Greetings aka,

It is a genuine question.  I genuinely want to understand.  I respect if you have nothing further to add.   Thanks for trying.
Just to clarify though, you do think Islam is simple.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 29 January 2013 at 9:27am
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



<a name="31"></a>Greetings Rational,Thank you for taking the time to answer. I can give a few examples, but what I really want to know is what do muslims mean when they refer to the simplicity of Islam. What exactly does this mean? Thanks, CHOne example:24:31 And <span ="w"="">tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their
adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not
to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands</span> or fathers or husbands' fathers, or
their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or
sisters' sons, or their women, <span ="i"="">or their slaves</span>, or male attendants who lack vigour, or
children who know naught of women's nakedness.


Greetings Caringheart,

Would you please explain what you were trying to understand in this verse, which you cannot grasp? You have referenced this as an example of some confusions you have about Islam. So, would you point out your confusion?

thank you.
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Caringheart




Greetings aka,I appreciate your patience with me.As regards your statement;"No, you do not have to believe in Mohammad"What then does, 'I believe in God and that Muhammad is His messenger', mean, if not a statement of belief in Muhammad? It is saying that you believe that Muhammad is a messenger of God. This says that you believe in Muhammad and in anything Muhammad says. You have to believe in a person to believe what they say. You do have to believe in Muhammad to believe in the qu'ran."



Believing in a person can mean one believes in whatever he says irrespective of anything else -like who he is, where he is coming from what his ideologies are etc etc ... like when one loves a person, its regardless of everything else.

Here we believe that Muhammad PBUH is a prophet of God. Everything that follows is after this belief.
Whatever he said or did was in accordance with the will of God. So yes, we believe in his words and actions (that they were to represent the will of God), but not regardless ... rather it is because he is a God sent messenger.
If he is not a God sent messenger, then there is no point beleiving in him.

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Caringheart




"1- Yes, you have the correct statement of faith. Anyone who says this statement should be considered a Muslim. ""Believing in God and submitting to His will are necessary conditions for being a Muslim, but they are not sufficient."

These two statements are contradictory to me.What exactly does it mean to be a muslim, because according to the first statement, it seems it doesn't mean much, and according to the second statement it seems that it does mean much more than a simple statement of faith.Sorry, I am still very confused.


Greetings Caringheart,

Im dissecting your statements, because I do not have a lot of time right now, so please excuse me.

Muslim in its literal arabic sense is a noun which denotes a person who has submitted to the will of God.

If you believe God is, only then you will submit to Him.
Once you believe He is, then you believe in what he chooses for you, then you surrender yourself to all what He commands.

Declaration of faith is not lip service. Anyone who 'says' there is one God but still believe shiv and vishnu and brhamma are also gods has not declared faith in one God ...
again any who says muhammad pbuh is the messenger of God, but still has doubts, perhaps this man was a self appointed prophet has not declared faith.

So, who is a muslim? He is one who has declared faith from true conviction of his heart ...
This person is a muslim.
This is a precondition for salvation. One who lives life according to teachings similar to that of Muhammad PBUH, but does not believe that he pbuh was a messenger of god, has not fulfilled the precondition of salvation.

Now comes the next part, is the precondition enough for salvation?
Not necessarily.

Any who believe in this precondition will enter paradise. howeverwhat comes next is that no one will enter paradise except he who is pure.

So after one has believed in the precondition one needs to work righteoousness

And there is yet another condition attached to the ticket to paradise. None will enter paradise except through the mercy of Allah. So once we have fulfilled all the conditions, we have to be hopeful of His mercy, without which there is no salvation.

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Muslim is meant to mean submitted to God.How do you measure whether a person is submitted to God?What defines a person as submitted to God?As far as I can see the shahada is only words...it is actions that show the true nature of the soul.So is it the words that deem one worthy to be called 'submitted to God'?or is it actions that deem one an example of one submitted to God?





Greetings Caringheart,

I think I have answered to some of your above statements, though had not read them then.

Except one statement " How do you measure whether a person is submitted to God?"

Is the usage of 'you' metaphorical?
Im just asking because I do use the second person pronoun metaphorically at times.

We, ie You or I cannot judge if one is submitted or not. we can only guess :)

The right of judgement is with God.

One who is submitted to God accepts his will in all matters, weather he likes it or not.

... and now I have to rush, so talk to you later.

stay tuned!

peace.
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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