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General Islamic Matter
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : General Islamic Matter
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2013 at 3:07am
walecum As salam WA rehmatullahi WA barakhatahu.yes we should debate as much as possible by quoting verses of Qur'an to them,because the more U do Da'waah(giving knowledge of Islam to non Muslims)the more sawaab U get.because finally those who are against Qur'an one day they will accept it,as Qur'an is the book of truth and it is a solution to mankind.so whatever chance I get I will do dawaah because its a fard which is mentioned in Surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3- Allah says man is in the state of loss except those who are involved in-faith,good deeds,resorting others truth(Da'waah),resorting people to patience and hard work.Allahfiz.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2013 at 5:21am
Greetings Caringheart,

'These are not the only sources where I get information. I read and listen to an awful lot from muslims themselves and weigh it all in the balance. These were simply two sources I wanted to ask how you refute what they say since this is the information that is out there. I thought you were interested in helping me. Now you show me in this public forum a different face... that you are angered by my questions. You never said so to me. I thought you were willing to address these things with me. Now I know why our conversations came to an end. I thought you were simply busy.'

'"I checked the youtube discussion talking about the jihad verse in chapter 9. I posted a response regarding the very issue - and what did you say? Did you try to read all of it, understand what was being said there or accept the analysis of the verse, no."
Can you refresh my memory, which youtube and which response? Yes I have always read and considered carefully all your responses to me. Some were exceedingly encouraging, and I was pretty sure I shared this fact.'


You are saying in your first statement that you had two sources - one of these was a youtube panel discussion. I listened to the first 30 minutes. It was talking about Jihad, the verse 9:5 in the quran, and how to deal with abrogation in the Quran.

I posted a a response to this in 'Islam for non-muslims'
I did not have this information - rather I searched the sources I trust and rely on, digged it out and posted it on the forum. Agreeed I did not address it directly to you, because I thought it is a general concern topic and should be presented to everyone :
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24604

YOur comment on Jan 11 2013:
'Islam is so complex, and confusing, and confused that it seems no one can figure it out the same way twice... and yet I have heard people talk of 'the simplicity of Islam'. I don't get it. To me there is nothing simple about it at all, in fact it is major confusion and open to much interpretation.'

If you please check the first 35 mins of the video, then re-read the 4 posts i have made and then re assess your comment, you will know what I am talking.

I was not angry at this video, nor did I ignore your concern. I posted something which answers exactly how one would refute such a claim. But after your comment, I did not go back to it, because it had robbed me off all energy for it.

Your second source I checked in a rush the first day. The second day when i looked carefully there were blasphemous remarks about the prophet of Islam in the opening lines. I said ideally I do not comment on this sort of thing - this IS my answer to your question about how I would refute it - I would simply not make any comment. However, since I was trying to help diffuse some of the tension between you and other muslims, I did make a cursory comment - I made an exception to my own rules. I was still not angry. But your response on Jan 8th, I felt pushed into further comments, I could not handle my own reaction, so I decided to step back a while.
However, I still did not want to do injustice to you, so, I kept talking to you on the forum about other issues which were not related to that website. Perhaps this you call a fake thing, because if I was angry with you about one thing, it should reflect in every other discussion I have with you ?
Our discussions on PM have ended, because I need to handle my anger. If I said anything to you it would only have made things worse.
Even in my response to AbuLoren I did not point a direct finger at you - rather mentioned it in anonimity, and said my anger at blasphemy is my personal problem.

'You(not you personally, but all those who do this) label these challenges to the faith anti-islamic because that is a convenient label. It saves from having to address real issues. I could label everything islamic as anti-everything else, but this gets us nowhere. What we need to address is why these things are being said. Change my mind if you can. I need to know that I can live in peace and equality with my fellow humans beings, even with islam in the world.'

Blasphemy is not an intellectual challenge Caingheart, it is simply ignorance and bad manners. And such bad manners are not seen anywhere except on anti-islamic websites.
There are no real issues in there - they are attacking our faith and our prophet. When there are real issue there always are ways of decorum to present them!!

Can you live in peace with Isalm in the world - well its upto you. Can you show respect to muslims and their prophet? Can you refrain from slandering him? Or you think your right to free speech allows you to slander anybody's honor?
Just the other day I saw a documentary on youtube- called The Rushdie Affair.
If you can find it, just check it out. Khushwant Singh, who is an atheist, says in that video he advised against the publication of Satanic Verses in India - because he was concerned about the sentiments of muslims in India. He said any group of people who hold someone in such high regard - it is not wise to challenge those sentiments. That book or the cartoons, or the movie - these are mischiefs. I cannot control the reaction of every muslim on it. I can teach my children and a handful of people I can have influence on. So I dont know how safe the world is when people insist on doing such kind of mischief, while responsible personales do not want to police them.

'We are not 'telling' anyone what the qur'an says, we are asking how it says something different to you. We are telling you that we can not understand how you do not see the same thing that we see, but if we can be assured that muslims will not act on the scriptures in the way we see them as intending for you to act, then all will be well.'

For example when you see the Quran as setting two groups of people against each other you did not ask how we see these verses. You simple said why the quran is setting two groups of people against each other. You've seen the whole confusion on that thread yourself.
When you are asking why the quran is saying something, basically you are saying that the quran is saying it and you want to know why, rather than asking if it is really saying what you think it is. Basically if muslims are not reading the verses as you think they are then the whole issue is a false premise.

'It is confusing because we can never be sure exactly what it is that your scriptures do say. There are many ways of interpreting and practicing... and there's that ever present issue of allah allowing deception or taqiya. How can anyone ever trust a muslim given that precept? '

There are only few verses in the quran that have sharia rulings in them. Many of these concern the muslims only. Regarding dealing with non-muslims if you misinterpret them and teach afghan children about jihad for 20 years, it may happen that one day an OBL is born who uses them against the very people who used the misinterpretation as a weapon for their enemy ... Do you see my point? Making the world safe for terrorism - did you read that article?

Taqayyiah, am still waiting for the references.
How do you know Ayesha (radiallahuanha) was 9 years old when she married the prophet? Is it thru islamic sources of non-islamic? There is information in our sources that is used by enemies of islam to discredit us and attack us, still our scholars did not hide those - and we are dishonest, untrustworthy people!


Edited by Nausheen - 05 February 2013 at 5:34am
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2013 at 12:24am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Nausheen,

I posted a reply to you on Feb. 8, which i just discovered the moderators never allowed to post. So I guess we are back to that... being unwilling to have truth shared openly. I am going to repost, but just in case it once again is deleted here is what I had responded to you.
Salaam,
Caringheart


Greetings Caringheart,
Im not sure why your post was deleted. I would still want to keep this discussion on the forum and hear from anyone who wants to share their views on this subject.

Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Nausheen,

Sorry to be slow about responding. I have been tired lately and need time to rest. To try immediately to answer all of your replies felt a bit overwhelming. I am sure you understand as you yourself take rest periods.


No problem.

Originally posted by Caringheart

To explain;
What I feel is a false face is for you to make judgements and accusations to another person about myself when you have had no such discussion with me and have presented no such dilemma to me. Your false face is in leading me to believe we were having open discussions when in truth you are judging me (and falsely judging me to boot), and then sharing that judgement, not with me, but with someone else.
Regarding what you have called anti-islamic...
The source that I asked you about clearly states:

    "The facts presented here about the life of Muhammad and the origins of Islam are fully supported by the works of early Muslim biographers upon which all later historians rely."

but when you are presented with uncomfortable facts that you dislike, not only did you stop conversation, you went to the fall back position of calling me anti-islamic to someone else.


Firstly, I called your piece of information anti-islamic, not you. I judged and accused the website, not the person who showed it to me – just to be clear.

Secondly, my impression is when something is said on a public forum, its open for everyone to join in. Thus if you are upset, which you are, you have all the rights and ability to seek clarifications, which I would try to provide.


Originally posted by Caringheart



Note: I just went back to read our conversation of Jan. 8...
So are you saying that you never read any further than that one opening (and yes I will agree, distasteful) comment? I will not argue that the comment is indeed provocative but it is a widely shared view.


I skimmed thru the site the first day, when I had missed the Ali sina challenge (which I call blasphemy). When I did read it – I was sorry the link came from you.

Calling such names to my prophet has become the norm lately. I understand the ‘widely shared view’- emphasis mine on your quote – but I do not care to respond in anyway. I regret giving them the satisfaction of increasing their visitor’s count due to my hit.

Originally posted by Caringheart

   You never bothered to go on to read why,


Because I do not read beyond blasphemy.

Originally posted by Caringheart

and how, those conclusions have been arrived at?


Because there are several ways of saying the same thing. One can choose or not to choose decorum in speech.

Originally posted by Caringheart

    In doing so you choose to turn a blind eye and accept only that which you want to believe. Is this wise?


Also a deaf ear to their cacophony! Yes, I think it is wiser than entertaining their bad manners.

Originally posted by Caringheart

   Is this the way to Truth?


Again, they are not heading to truth. They are only making noise – in ignorance and with bad manners.

Originally posted by Caringheart

     There have been many things said about Jesus and I have delved deeply into every thing that is said, to weigh carefully whether the views I have held are clear and true.


Hats off to you!

Originally posted by Caringheart

       "such bad manners are not seen anywhere except on anti-islamic websites."

I can wholeheartedly disagree with you there. The things muslims have to say about the faith of others is no less offensive, it's just that the rest of us are able to deal with differing beliefs without accusing others of being deliberate trouble-makers. We can accept that others are allowed to question and have their own opinion about our beliefs, and we are, at least I am, willing to look into those differences of opinion to see what is behind them... to seek after real truth.


I agree there are muslims who say offensive things to people of other faiths, but I have never joined their band wagon.
The choice to comment or not to comment over a piece is mine. To let me be or to coax me further into a response is not in my control. It rests with the person I am communicating my choice to.

I am always of opinon that everyone has a right to ask questions, but I reserve the right to comment or not to comment over a reference someone shows. I still think your reference was anti-islamic, blasphemous and rude. I think those sources were most easily available when you started to do your homework on Islam. That is what I meant when I commented on you as coming out of anti-islamic websites.

Peace.

PS: I will be travelling for two weeks thus will not be able to respond to anything for a while.




Edited by Nausheen - 12 February 2013 at 12:29am
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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