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General Islamic Matter
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : General Islamic Matter
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
Should we debate with people who has no knowledge of Islam?
 
I am asking this question because we have people here particularly those who claim to be Christians who has read a few chapters of the Holy Qur'an then come here to debate with Muslims as if they have something new to reveal or that they have found something incredible that Muslims must be told. Before they come here they arm themselves with ammuition from anti-Islamic sites and post those same questions that are at those sites.
 
Particular mention must be given to TG12345 and Caringheart who has never even completed reading the Holy Qur'an yet they preach here as if they know something we don't. At first when they join they say that they are here to learn then once they earn our trust they show their true colours. They say things like "Muhammad said this in the Qur'an" or "Muhammed meant well but he was wrong".
 
When we counter these slander, then immediately we are labelled as a hot head or a fundamentalist.
 
Thoughts much appreciated.
 

Greetings Abu_Loren,

I think this is a mistake you make... making a pre-conceived assumption about people who come here.

You say that they
"arm themselves with ammuition from anti-Islamic sites and post those same questions that are at those sites."
How about they hear things, they seek to do research on their own, that reasearch leads to having questions that they would like to hear the answers to from muslims themselves?  Perhaps people come here because they want to get to know muslims personally and not just through articles on the internet.  Yes, we have questions?  You should have questions too.  and you should ask them.  I don't think anyone is coming here because
"they have something new to reveal or that they have found something incredible that Muslims must be told."

and since you bring me into your thread...
when have I ever
"preach[ed] here as if they know something we don't."
I only share my own viewpoint.  Just because you don't like it you should not accuse me of doing something I am not doing.
Whatever you believe, it is simply your own viewpoint as well, from what you have been taught.  I don't accuse you of preaching because you share your views.

Didn't know I had to earn your trust.  I only came here to talk.

When has any non-muslim here labeled anyone a hot head or fundamentalist.  I have not seen it.

Heck there are those within my own faith that would call me 'legalistic'.  So what?  They can have their views.  That does not make them right.  Doesn't make me right either.  There's saying that goes something like this;
'Would you rather be right, or would you rather get along?'  What do you think God would want?  I say, if we are getting along, then we must be doing something right.  If we are not getting along, then we are doing something wrong.

Salaam,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 03 February 2013 at 11:17am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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lady
 
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Quote lady Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 3:40pm

CH can you please stop being so hypocritical and unhappy. Your complete agenda towards islam is based on falsehood.  I noticed it immediately way back when I read your very first post and then you had the nerve to name your id, "Caring Heart."  If you want people to give you respect then you have to respect others FIRST.  (smile)>

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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



Greetings Nausheen,Once again you shock and surprise me.
"Caringheart is purely out of anti-islamic agendas"
I really resent that statement because it is absolutely not true, and you have obviously not read all of my posts.http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24625&KW=beautiful&PID=172671#172671


Greetings Caringheart.

The references you ask me to comment on are from anti-islamic groups. That is where you get your information about islam. If am wrong then the truth we share with you about islam should make sense, but apparently it does not.

I checked the youtube discussion talking about the jihad verse in chapter 9. I posted a response regarding the very issue - and what did you say? Did you try to read all of it, understand what was being said there or accept the analysis of the verse, no. Your statement was more disappointing than anything I have said here. Your comment about abrogation of verses in another discussion reflected you hardly read the information I posted. Why do you not analyse carefully the information we share, I don't know.

But I am not disappointed, because from that episode I learned what the non-muslims are worried about in Islam, and I also learned the truth behind a matter that I might have otherwise not looked into so carefully.




Originally posted by Caringheart

" I dont know how they are reading the Quran."
Then you should ask, not make assumptions. I have two copies, separate translations, in my home that I got from the library. Two copies since that was all that was available, and two copies so that I can make comparisons and be sure to gain a fair and proper understanding.


A translation of the Quran is never enough. After reading the two translations you cannot decide what is said in the Quran unless you are sure from the tafsirs, which is what we muslims do to understand a verse.
It is a sin to say about the quran what 'we think' even if we are correct, unless we are absolutely sure that whatever we think 'is' in reality what is meant by a particular verse. - that is how careful muslims are about the quran.

But non-muslims read a translation then start 'telling us' what it is saying. In the least its offensive to ones intellect if not anything else. We dont have to ask the non-muslims to tell us what the quran is saying ... Abu Loren's concern is exactly this. If you dont do this, then you will ask us what a verse means, and believe us when we tell you what we know about its meaning.
The anti islamic agenda groups make their own presumptions and spread lies about us. If you want to do your research then you should not dismiss information saying its all so confusing to you.

Originally posted by Caringheart

It seems by your statements here, that you have been presenting a false face to me, and that makes me very sorry to learn. It certainly does not help my acceptance of followers of islam.I think it is very rude speaking of others on the forum in third person, rather than addressing them personally and properly.


You cannot know my face by reading just a few posts here. I have spoken directly to you, and continue to do so. My response to Abu Loren is that I have not given up on anyone and advise others the same, because the false information which is perhaps used as your homework before having a real dialogue with muslims should be assessed and argued.


Originally posted by Caringheart

"If they did not they would have been muslims already, so just dont let that part irritate you or you lose the purpose of discussion. "
You lose the purpose of discussion anyway, if you present a false face.Salaam,Caringheart


Yes Caringheart, 'if' I present a false face I lose the purpose of discussion with you.

peace.

Edited by Nausheen - 03 February 2013 at 11:40pm
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 3:28am
Greetings CaringHeart,

Would you please clarify what is shocking to you about my response. Is it the fact that I think your source of info is purely anti-islamic websites, or my entire post?

Also, I dont understand what you mean by a false face. Ive always spoken to you with honesty, then why do you think I carry a false face?

thank you.
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by lady

CH can you please stop being so hypocritical and unhappy. Your complete agenda towards islam is based on falsehood.  I noticed it immediately way back when I read your very first post and then you had the nerve to name your id, "Caring Heart."  If you want people to give you respect then you have to respect others FIRST.  (smile)>

Greetings lady,

I went back to see some of my first posts, then realized it would be easier to ask you...
Which 'very first post' are you referring to?
I have, and never have had, any agenda, other than to hear from the mouth of muslims themselves, what it is that they believe they follow.
I have said from the beginning, I believe in people... in getting to know the people.  That has not been so easy to do, because they do not like the hard questions that I ask, yet I have these same hard questions asked of myself and I am not accusing people of having 'an agenda'.  I just know that we have differing beliefs and that they may not understand mine, and the only way we will ever understand each other is through talking to each other and getting to know one another.
Yes, I ask hard questions.  That is because I seek Truth.
I also have answered hard questions that have been asked of me.
and yes, this is because I have a caring heart for all people. Heart
I want to know the people, not just what is said about their religion.  I want to know what the people think about their religion.

Salaam,
Caringheart

Please if you would, read what I wrote to Abu_Loren above.


Edited by Caringheart - 04 February 2013 at 12:28pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 1:02pm
Greetings Nausheen,

These are not the only sources where I get information.  I read and listen to an awful lot from muslims themselves and weigh it all in the balance.
These were simply two sources I wanted to ask how you refute what they say since this is the information that is out there.  I thought you were interested in helping me.  Now you show me in this public forum a different face... that you are angered by my questions.  You never said so to me.  I thought you were willing to address these things with me.  Now I know why our conversations came to an end.  I thought you were simply busy.
You(not you personally, but all those who do this) label these challenges to the faith anti-islamic because that is a convenient label.  It saves from having to address real issues.  I could label everything islamic as anti-everything else, but this gets us nowhere.  What we need to address is why these things are being said.  Change my mind if you can.  I need to know that I can live in peace and equality with my fellow humans beings, even with islam in the world.

"I checked the youtube discussion talking about the jihad verse in chapter 9. I posted a response regarding the very issue - and what did you say? Did you try to read all of it, understand what was being said there or accept the analysis of the verse, no."
Can you refresh my memory, which youtube and which response?  Yes I have always read and considered carefully all your responses to me.  Some were exceedingly encouraging, and I was pretty sure I shared this fact.

"But I am not disappointed, because from that episode I learned what the non-muslims are worried about in Islam, and I also learned the truth behind a matter that I might have otherwise not looked into so carefully."
This is good, because this is the reason I wished for you to watch... to understand how it is on the other side of things.   Then we become better equipped to understand and trust one another.  Your most recent responses gave me reason to doubt the trust I had been placing in you and in our discussions.  It made me doubt your sincerity.

"But non-muslims read a translation then start 'telling us' what it is saying."
We are not 'telling' anyone what the qur'an says, we are asking how it says something different to you.  We are telling you that we can not understand how you do not see the same thing that we see, but if we can be assured that muslims will not act on the scriptures in the way we see them as intending for you to act, then all will be well.
It is confusing because we can never be sure exactly what it is that your scriptures do say.  There are many ways of interpreting and practicing... and there's that ever present issue of allah allowing deception or taqiya.  How can anyone ever trust a muslim given that precept?  These are the things we need to see addressed.  This is not anti-islamic, these are real concerns, as they would be for you too if you saw these things in the scriptures of others towards yourselves.

"My response to Abu Loren is that I have not given up on anyone and advise others the same, because the false information which is perhaps used as your homework before having a real dialogue with muslims should be assessed and argued. "
Thank you, and this is what I hope for, that the information be assessed, and only then, addressed.

"Yes Caringheart, 'if' I present a false face I lose the purpose of discussion with you. "
Smile  Good because until now you have given hope.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 04 February 2013 at 1:08pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 1:18pm
I also wish to thank the administrators for allowing my responses to post.  I hope that we may increase understanding.
Let us seek Truth together
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 1:47pm
Greetings Abu_Loren,

I've never asked for, or looked for debate, just conversation. Smile

Salaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
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