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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: ALL Christians will go to HELL Post Reply Post New Topic
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Reepicheep

nospam001 wrote: 3 modulo 2 = 1 in the sense that 1 is the remainder after division...
 
You are of course correct.  Clearly you are more than just a pretty face.  I should have been more careful in my equations.
 
OK, how about this for an explanation.  In the following equation:
 
3 modulo 2 = 1
 
I was clearly in error in claiming that the two numbers in red above are equivalent.  But consider the following two equations:
 
1 modulo 2 = 1
3 modulo 2 = 1
 
Here, the numbers 1 and 3 in red are equivalent.  Or, combining these statements into one, we get:
 
3 ≡ 1   (mod 2)
 
So, lets make this equation my mathematical analogy for the Trinity.
 
(I hope this equation reads OK at your end; I tried to insert that weird symbol consisting of three parallel horizontal lines, and had difficulty doing so)
 
(EDIT: hey, it just occured to me that the weird symbol consists of THREE horizontal lines.  Doesn't that make my equation twice as convincing as an argument proving the existance of the Trinity???)
 
********************
 
nospam001 wrote, in reference to a post by Caringheart: As for the 'trinity' of fundamental forces, weak, strong and electromagnetic, What about gravity? 
 
Actually, I really like Caringheart's analogy.  I believe that the first three forces discovered by humans were electricity, magnetism, and gravity.  We now know that electricity and magnetism are, in fact, the same force.  If science ever does come up with a TOE ("theory of everything"), then we will have proven that gravity, electricity, and magnetism are all the same force.
 
So, then, are these three forces or one force?  In the Trinity, are there 3 gods or 1 god?  I think the analogy is quite good.
 
Of course, this analogy ignores the existance of the weak and strong forces, just as my modulo analogy ignores the fact that:
 
5 mod 2 = 3 mod 2
 
But that's the thing about analogies: they always break down at some point, and we must be careful not to take them too far.
 
 
You guys CANNOT be serious! Do you know how stoopid you guys look? All this science has clouded your brains.
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 9:44am
what a hot topic. 9 pages in a day.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Rational


Have you lived with a muslim? Have you experienced how a muslim worships God?


Hi Rational,

It's funny you asked that question because I have sometimes thought that the muslim 'lifestyle' would suit me very well.

Salaam,
CH
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Rational


I know your faith.


But you do not know the scriptures... you have not searched them for yourself.

These are the very Scriptures that testify about Me, 40 yet you refuse to come to Me to have life. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.  46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”  (the words of Jesus)


31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.  (the words of Jesus)


The new testament is concealed in the old (the prophesy of Jesus to come)
and the old testament is revealed in the new (the coming of Jesus reveals what was hidden in the old testament)


Edited by Caringheart - 22 January 2013 at 11:42am
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 11:50am
All Christians will go to hell?  Really?  and what about the non-Christian?
Let us examine.

Man:  "Lord I never knew You"
Jesus:  "and yet you have lived in every way according to what I have taught."
Man:  "Have I Lord?"
Jesus:  "You have always sought the Father and now you see me.  Do you see that I am the Son?"
Man:  "Yes Lord, Yes I do."

and what judgement do you think Jesus will pass on this man?

You see whatever path one has taken, if they have been seeking God, they will one day see the Truth of Jesus... and yes, Jesus is ,the way, to the Father.  Jesus is the One to grant admission to His kingdom.

Just something to ponder.


You do know that satan loves nothing more than to cause strife... to see arguing for no purpose other than the sake of arguing.
Let us converse with one another, not argue over details.

Peace and blessings to all. Heart


Edited by Caringheart - 22 January 2013 at 11:52am
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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by TG12345

Stating that one God existing as three persons = polytheism on the part of Christians requires as much ignorance of Christianity as stating that ascribing 99+ attributes to God = believing there are 99+ gods on the part of Muslims requires ignorance of Islam.

Stop talking rubbish. I can't take anymore in one day my bin is full.

These are 99 specific Names of Allah, attributes of Allah. They describe Him (Azza Wa Jall). Not a single one of these names "manifested itself on earth as God for us to see", as you believe with your "Son of God". Not a single one of these names was conceived in a woman and later born on earth, as we Muslims believe happened to Jesus (pbuh). Because Jesus (pbuh) is a man, attributes belong to God.

It gets better…
Originally posted by TG12345

Since God exists as three persons...

So while one of the persons of the Trinity died...

Definition of "Person":
1. A human being regarded as an individual.
2. Used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual.
3. A self-conscious or rational being.

Therefore by definition, each one of those "Persons" is an Individual, a self-conscious or rational being.

Definition of "Individual":
1. A distinct, indivisible entity; a single thing, being, instance, or item.
2. A single human being as distinct from a group.

Adjective
Single; separate: "individual tiny flowers".

So, each "Person" is a single, separate, distinct individual. And you have three persons. You say you worship One. By definition, you don't. By definition, you are worshiping three Persons, three Gods.

(God the father) + (God the son) + (God the spirit) = 3

No matter what fancy illustration you use to define 3=1, by definition you're wrong. What you really want is 3=3. Much easier.



Edited by Rational - 22 January 2013 at 1:26pm
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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by Rational

Quick question, can you tell me where in the Bible that Jesus (pbuh) said "I am God, Worship me"? I want to see this in the Bible if it's there.

Did He say that statement in these exact words? No, He did not.

However, He did make it very clear He is God in other words.


TG, listen to your fellow Christian, our friend Eoah. He's telling you that Jesus is not God.
Originally posted by Eoah

Greetings TG12345...and to all that have offered such interesting discussion on this hot topic.

"You are the one who is wrong. Jesus was God in the flesh. He was both God and man."

No, it is you who is wrong! The creator cannot be creation.  The bottom line is that Jesus never said: "I am God", because Jesus is creation.  Even though God resides in Heaven, that doesn't imply that God doesn't reside on earth, for we can experiance the joy and the knowingness of God within creation through the Holy Spirit.  Now the Holy Spirit is not a separate God who is partner to God Almighty, either.  The Holy Spirit is God Almighty who is the one and only.

When Jesus said: "I and my father are one" it is because he is connected to God through the Holy Spirit.  Now, in that sentence it only seems like the Holy Spirit is a separate from God Almighty in Heaven.  God in Heaven and God on Earth (Holy Spirit) is a totally seamless awesome universal one being that is totally beyond our comprehention!!!  But, I love him and I live by him.  And Jesus is my spiritual role model, but even though I am a Christian, Prophet Mohammed is my spiritual role model too.  God bless them both!

There is nothing in the Bible that equates God as 3; there is nothing in the Bible that equates God with 2.  But, over and over in the bible God is one all the way, baby!  And the Quran backs that up over and over again that the Bible is true in the statement that God is one!  The council of Nicea can't argue with that.  And the council of Nicea don't have the authority to say God is 3 because they're not Prophets anointed by God.

Now TG12345, I might have alot of contempt for them "Jesus Idol worshippers",  but, I respect you and love you simply because you are on this forum with the courage to discuss your spiritual convictions.  May the One God Bless you.



Edited by Rational - 22 January 2013 at 2:31pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 2:46pm
Just as there are muslims without full understanding, there are those that call themselves Christian who lack knowledge and understanding... who are astray in their thinking.  I respect Eoah, but he himself says he is not a practicing Christian.  He obviously does not believe in the Christian faith even though he associates himself with it due to his family of origin.  mho

Edited by Caringheart - 22 January 2013 at 2:48pm
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