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Interfaith Dialogue
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Topic: ALL Christians will go to HELL
    Posted: 16 January 2013 at 7:21am

As’alaamu Alikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

 

It is written that the greatest sin which Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala will not forgive is associating partners to Him. The Christians associate the Holy Spirit who is Jibril (Alyhi Salaam) and the Son who is Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) with God Almighty. However, their escape clause is in stipulating that all three are one. A simple mathematical calculation renders this impossible. I was taught at school that 1+1+1=3. This is simple mathematics that all school children learn when they start kindergarten. This formula is pure polytheism which they do not want to acknowledge as it is better to close your eyes and believe that 1+1+1=1. Then they argue that God has always been three in one even they say, in the Old Testament. I have read and re-read the Old Testament but I just can’t find this reasoning anywhere. May be I am just st**id.

Then you have the Catholic denomination of Christianity where all of their churches are adorned with idols. Everywhere you look you will find a figure hanging from a cross, the idol of Mary mother Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) and saints from their history. They pray to these idols and ask for intercession, which is nonsensical because all these people are dead awaiting resurrection. No human being can intercede for you.

When Prophet Muhammad (Alayhi Salaam) started to receive his revelations he invited the people of the Book both Jews and Christians to be part of the New Muhammadan Covenant. They refused to the detriment of their souls. They could not see the light that was sent during the time of darkness. They refused the Mercy that was sent to all mankind, therefore they are still in that darkness where the light just does not shine.

There is a simple solution for all Christians and Jews who are seeking their own salvation. It is simply to submit to the One True God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala and be part of the Final Covenant of God Almighty. They need to open their eyes and their hearts and worship God how He wants us to worship Him.

“Ashadu anla Illaha Illallah wa Ashadu anna Muhammadan abduhu rasool Allah”.

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Reepicheep
 
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Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 3:18pm
Abu Loren wrote: ALL Christians will go to HELL
 
Very bravely spoken, Abu Loren!!!  Since you are, on your own authority, sentencing every single Christian without exception to hell, you are claiming that you have the authority to determine who goes to hell and who goes to heaven.  In other words, by claiming for yourself a right which belongs to Allah alone, you are elevating yourself to the level of Allah and claiming partnership with Him.  Correct?
 
I'm sure you agree that, if Allah decides to contradict you and lets even one Christian into heaven, then you face a very severe fate on the Day of Judgement.
 
By the way, are you familiar with the following passage from the Koran?
 
Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the Final Day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.  Surah 5:69
 
Since you are claiming that this passage is wrong, and since muslims believe that this passage was revealed to humanity through Muhammad, then I assume you are accusing Muhammad of being a false prophet? 
 
Abu Loren wrote: ...believe that 1+1+1=1.
 
Yes, you are correct.  There are systems of mathematics where 3 = 1, for example, Integer Modulo 2 arithmetic.  To see this for yourself, go to (for example) www.google.com and type in
 
3 MOD 2
 
It will confirm that 3 is, in fact, equal to 1.


Edited by Reepicheep - 16 January 2013 at 4:56pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abu Loren wrote: ALL Christians will go to HELL
 
Very bravely spoken, Abu Loren!!!  Since you are, on your own authority, sentencing every single Christian without exception to hell, you are claiming that you have the authority to determine who goes to hell and who goes to heaven.  In other words, by claiming for yourself a right which belongs to Allah alone, you are elevating yourself to the level of Allah and claiming partnership with Him.  Correct?
 
I'm sure you agree that, if Allah decides to contradict you and lets even one Christian into heaven, then you face a very severe fate on the Day of Judgement.
 
By the way, are you familiar with the following passage from the Koran?
 
Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the Final Day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.  Surah 5:69
 
Since you are claiming that this passage is wrong, and since muslims believe that this passage was revealed to humanity through Muhammad, then I assume you are accusing Muhammad of being a false prophet? 
 
Abu Loren wrote: ...believe that 1+1+1=1.
 
Yes, you are correct.  There are systems of mathematics where 3 = 1, for example, Integer Modulo 2 arithmetic.  To see this for yourself, go to (for example) www.google.com and type in
 
3 MOD 2
 
It will confirm that 3 is, in fact, equal to 1.


Another illustration is in the atomic (or micro) level of all matter... the energy that forms everything...
is made up of
                  electro magnetic force                   weak force
                                                   \              /
                                                       strong
                                                        force
trinity
Is God energy itself?
capable of taking any form...
something to ponder on
Does anyone know the nature of God?
Why is it that we can not look upon Him?

on a side note:
Does a shamrock have three leaves and yet it is one?



Edited by Caringheart - 16 January 2013 at 6:38pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 6:36pm
I think a person should have faith because they believe in the faith, because the faith itself has something to recommend it, not because they have lost faith in another.

Many are astray in their practice...
it does not necessarily mean they are astray in their belief.
God, and only God, can judge the heart.

Peace/salaam.



Edited by Caringheart - 16 January 2013 at 6:41pm
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abu Loren wrote: ALL Christians will go to HELL
 
Very bravely spoken, Abu Loren!!!  Since you are, on your own authority, sentencing every single Christian without exception to hell, you are claiming that you have the authority to determine who goes to hell and who goes to heaven.  In other words, by claiming for yourself a right which belongs to Allah alone, you are elevating yourself to the level of Allah and claiming partnership with Him.  Correct?
 
I'm sure you agree that, if Allah decides to contradict you and lets even one Christian into heaven, then you face a very severe fate on the Day of Judgement.
 
By the way, are you familiar with the following passage from the Koran?
 
Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the Final Day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.  Surah 5:69
 
Since you are claiming that this passage is wrong, and since muslims believe that this passage was revealed to humanity through Muhammad, then I assume you are accusing Muhammad of being a false prophet? 
 
Abu Loren wrote: ...believe that 1+1+1=1.
 
Yes, you are correct.  There are systems of mathematics where 3 = 1, for example, Integer Modulo 2 arithmetic.  To see this for yourself, go to (for example) www.google.com and type in
 
3 MOD 2
 
It will confirm that 3 is, in fact, equal to 1.
 
Reepicheep I see that you come out of the woodwork now and then and show your face on this forum.
 
I wrote what I wrote not on my own authority as I know the consequences of it, unlike the Christians. All I'm doing is just simplifying what God has said in His final Revelation to mankind.
 
By the way, all Christians like to quote passage 5:69 as it makes them feel secure that everything is ok. But here's the real meaning of that verse.
 
Sahih International
 
Indeed, those who have believed [in Prophet Muhammad] and those [before Him] who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. 5:69
 
As you can see you as a Christian, Jew or a Sabean must believe in Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) and in the Holy Qur'an. As far as I can see only a handful of Christians will make it. It is those who followed the original message of of Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) before the Trinitarians hijacked Christianity.
 
You can give me all the science you want as. again. diverting attention away from 1+1+1=3 makes you Christians feel secure or rather a false sense of security.
 
By the way, when can we see you next on this forum?


Edited by Abu Loren - 16 January 2013 at 6:57pm
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abu Loren wrote: ALL Christians will go to HELL

 
Very bravely spoken, Abu Loren!!!  Since you are, on your own authority, sentencing every single Christian without exception to hell, you are claiming that you have the authority to determine who goes to hell and who goes to heaven.  In other words, by claiming for yourself a right which belongs to Allah alone, you are elevating yourself to the level of Allah and claiming partnership with Him.  Correct?



Hello Reepicheep,

The least requirement of a constructive debate is honesty.Without that one cannot lead to anywhere.

How can you says that anyone is claiming on his personal authority that associating partners is the gravest sin in the sight of Allah.

The reasoning is based on this fact. Though I can admit it is a very bold statement, one which should create a lot of repercussions, and as muslims we may want tone it down ... however toning it down will not change the fact - it can only change its impact on the listener.

Any who believes Jesus is God has associated partners. Now if there are christians who are free from this belief, their heart is indeed pure from this sin, and they have a wiggle room with Allah on the day of judgement.

Quran 5:116

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.





Edited by Nausheen - 16 January 2013 at 7:20pm
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Reepicheep

Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the Final Day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.  Surah 5:69
 
 Sahih International
Indeed, those who have believed [in Prophet Muhammad] and those [before Him] who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. 5:69


5:69 Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

Who changed(added to) the words of the qu'ran?



Edited by Caringheart - 16 January 2013 at 7:18pm
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



Who changed(added to) the words of the qu'ran?</span>


Quran 5:14 - 17

And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do.

O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.

By which Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path.

They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.


These verses appear in the same chapter before verse 69.

The Quran is charging those of disbeleif who say Allah is christ.

Edited by Nausheen - 16 January 2013 at 7:34pm
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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