IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Indonesian gov't debates cutting science

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TG12345
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Topic: Indonesian gov't debates cutting science
Posted: 11 January 2013 at 5:17am

as a subject in elementary schools, in favour of religion and nationalism. Out of curiousity, what are people's thoughts on this?

I believe religion does and should always have a place in the educational system, and it is a travesty that public schools in the West try to remove it completely and that some already have. I commend Indonesia for making sure this will not happen in its schools.

I think though that it is important for kids to learn about Science, and it would cause great harm to the kids and later down the road, society, if they do not learn it.

These are just my thoughts. What are yours?

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2013/01/201311153948618174.html

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abuayisha

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Posted: 11 January 2013 at 7:55am

Officials who back the changes say that more religious instruction is needed because a lack of moral development has led to an increase in violence and vandalism among youths, and that could fuel social unrest and corruption in the future.

“Right now many students don’t have character, tolerance for others, empathy for others,” Musliar Kasim, the deputy minister of education, said in an interview in November. He proposed the changes in September.

He is part of a team of officials, academics and advisers from the office of Vice President Boediono working to streamline the curriculum in 2013.

Mr. Hamid said that the aim was to create a “balance between attitude, skills and knowledge.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/world/asia/in-indonesia-science-may-give-way-to-religion.html?ref=internationaleducation&_r=1&

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TG12345
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Joined: 16 December 2012
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Posts: 280

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 2:18pm

Originally posted by abuayisha

Officials who back the changes say that more religious instruction is needed because a lack of moral development has led to an increase in violence and vandalism among youths, and that could fuel social unrest and corruption in the future.

He is part of a team of officials, academics and advisers from the office of Vice President Boediono working to streamline the curriculum in 2013.

Mr. Hamid said that the aim was to create a “balance between attitude, skills and knowledge.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/world/asia/in-indonesia-science-may-give-way-to-religion.html?ref=internationaleducation&_r=1&

Don't get me wrong, I am definitely in favour of keeping religion... as long as there is equal instruction time for Muslims, Christians, Hindus, others and each group of students from each religion gets to be taught their religion as much as is possible.

I think it would be a good idea to keep the religion, but do away with nationalism. Devotion to a country is to me like devotion to money... it only leads away from God.

Plus, if you want to see some of the effects of Indonesian "nationalism", remember the 750,000 dead in East Timor, hundreds of thousands of communists in Indonesia, and thousands of West Papuans. Like German, Russian, Israeli, American "nationalism", the Indonesian brand leaves destroyed cities and murdered victims in its wake.

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Matt Browne
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Joined: 19 April 2010
Location: Germany
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Posted: 16 January 2013 at 4:44am

I think children need both, a good science education and religious/ethics education. But the state has to be the owner of the content. Unfortunately, both bad science (creationism in some US states) and bad religious education (many madrassas in Pakistan) occur. In Germany the state does own the content. Recently some German states have begun offering Islam classes and hiring certified teachers. I think this is very important. In the past there was only private Quran classes organized by individual mosques and often the quality was low (memorizing Arab phrases without understanding them) or the content violated the German constitution (Islamist propaganda).

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 280	Topic: Indonesian gov't debates cutting science Posted: 11 January 2013 at 5:17am
	as a subject in elementary schools, in favour of religion and nationalism. Out of curiousity, what are people's thoughts on this? I believe religion does and should always have a place in the educational system, and it is a travesty that public schools in the West try to remove it completely and that some already have. I commend Indonesia for making sure this will not happen in its schools. I think though that it is important for kids to learn about Science, and it would cause great harm to the kids and later down the road, society, if they do not learn it. These are just my thoughts. What are yours? http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2013/01/201311153948618174.html
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abuayisha Senior Member Joined: 05 October 1999 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3997	Posted: 11 January 2013 at 7:55am
	Officials who back the changes say that more religious instruction is needed because a lack of moral development has led to an increase in violence and vandalism among youths, and that could fuel social unrest and corruption in the future. “Right now many students don’t have character, tolerance for others, empathy for others,” Musliar Kasim, the deputy minister of education, said in an interview in November. He proposed the changes in September. He is part of a team of officials, academics and advisers from the office of Vice President Boediono working to streamline the curriculum in 2013. Mr. Hamid said that the aim was to create a “balance between attitude, skills and knowledge.” http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/world/asia/in-indonesia-science-may-give-way-to-religion.html?ref=internationaleducation&_r=1&
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 280	Posted: 11 January 2013 at 2:18pm
	*Originally posted by abuayisha* Officials who back the changes say that more religious instruction is needed because a lack of moral development has led to an increase in violence and vandalism among youths, and that could fuel social unrest and corruption in the future. “Right now many students don’t have character, tolerance for others, empathy for others,” Musliar Kasim, the deputy minister of education, said in an interview in November. He proposed the changes in September. He is part of a team of officials, academics and advisers from the office of Vice President Boediono working to streamline the curriculum in 2013. Mr. Hamid said that the aim was to create a “balance between attitude, skills and knowledge.” http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/world/asia/in-indonesia-science-may-give-way-to-religion.html?ref=internationaleducation&_r=1& Don't get me wrong, I am definitely in favour of keeping religion... as long as there is equal instruction time for Muslims, Christians, Hindus, others and each group of students from each religion gets to be taught their religion as much as is possible. I think it would be a good idea to keep the religion, but do away with nationalism. Devotion to a country is to me like devotion to money... it only leads away from God. Plus, if you want to see some of the effects of Indonesian "nationalism", remember the 750,000 dead in East Timor, hundreds of thousands of communists in Indonesia, and thousands of West Papuans. Like German, Russian, Israeli, American "nationalism", the Indonesian brand leaves destroyed cities and murdered victims in its wake.
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Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 16 January 2013 at 4:44am
	I think children need both, a good science education and religious/ethics education. But the state has to be the owner of the content. Unfortunately, both bad science (creationism in some US states) and bad religious education (many madrassas in Pakistan) occur. In Germany the state does own the content. Recently some German states have begun offering Islam classes and hiring certified teachers. I think this is very important. In the past there was only private Quran classes organized by individual mosques and often the quality was low (memorizing Arab phrases without understanding them) or the content violated the German constitution (Islamist propaganda).
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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