IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The Final Hurdle of becoming a Muslim is

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Caringheart

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Posted: 16 January 2013 at 10:59am

[QUOTE=Abu Loren]

You are right. I am scared and I want to run as far away from your st**idity as possible. So you think that God should have sent Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) to Emperor Ming in China? Surely that would have been pointless as the Children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt! Read the Holy Qur'an fully and then come back and debate.

Also see the thread 'Debating with Christians'. [ /QUOTE]

Might I make the recommendation to you also, of reading two things?

the thread, A Word about debate, in General discussion
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24609&PID=172800#172800

and speaking of prophets or prophesy in China;
http://www.sacred-texts.com/journals/oc/pc-ilni.htm

We are trying to help you come out of the neanderthal age Abu. Wink

Salaam.

Edited by Caringheart - 16 January 2013 at 11:12am

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Rational

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Posted: 17 January 2013 at 4:32am

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Originally posted by Caringheart

I have yet to have any muslim tell me what it is that they find so objectionable in the teaching of Paul.

Paul contradicted everything that Jesus (pbuh) said, did and was

Jesus taught that God is ONE, Pauline theology pioneered the Trinity
Jesus taught OT law, Paul negated it
Jesus taught accountability, Paul taught justification of faith
Jesus taught he was son of man, Paul taught Jesus was son of God
Jesus said pray to God, Paul said pray to Jesus
Jesus taught he was an ethnic prophet not sent but for the lost sheep of israel, Paul taught that Jesus was a universal prophet
and on and on and on…

Edited by Rational - 17 January 2013 at 5:45am

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Rational

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Posted: 17 January 2013 at 5:27am

Originally posted by TG12345

I pray He leads you to Him and that you accept what Christ did for you and us all on the cross.

If he has indeed taken my sins in such a degrading way, as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine.

Edited by Rational - 17 January 2013 at 5:44am

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 17 January 2013 at 7:09am

Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by TG12345

I pray He leads you to Him and that you accept what Christ did for you and us all on the cross.

If he has indeed taken my sins in such a degrading way, as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine.

Bravo bro. well said. Every soul is responsible for it's own sins otherwise I could go out tomorrow and murder uncaringheart and give that sin to Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) Astaghfirullah!

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abuayisha

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Posted: 17 January 2013 at 7:09am

".....as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine."

Nafsi, nafsi (myself, myself), on that Day, indeed you would not want them back.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 17 January 2013 at 12:08pm

Originally posted by Rational

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Originally posted by Caringheart

I have yet to have any muslim tell me what it is that they find so objectionable in the teaching of Paul.

Paul contradicted everything that Jesus (pbuh) said, did and was

Jesus taught that God is ONE, Pauline theology pioneered the Trinity
Jesus taught OT law, Paul negated it
Jesus taught accountability, Paul taught justification of faith
Jesus taught he was son of man, Paul taught Jesus was son of God
Jesus said pray to God, Paul said pray to Jesus
Jesus taught he was an ethnic prophet not sent but for the lost sheep of israel, Paul taught that Jesus was a universal prophet
and on and on and on…

Greetings Rational,

By your statements above,
You are obviously not aware then, of how often Jesus spoke against the Pharisees and their 'laws'.

The trouble is that people do not take the time to read and understand the teaching of Paul.
Here are some things you do not understand because you do not have the fullness of God's Word.
Rather than me posting a lot here on the forum, please go and read at this link,
http://www.eliyah.com/protorah.html
which I just came across. It shares much of what I had begun typing to share here on the forum and will save alot of my time and energy.

I would also like to throw in that you should read Hebrews 10 at the following link;
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=hebrews%2010&version=NLT

I will hope you do justice to the name you choose and take a rational look at the links that I provided. Smile

If anything, God chose Paul because he knew the law so well.

Salaam,
Caringheart

Edited by Caringheart - 17 January 2013 at 12:13pm

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Caringheart

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Posted: 17 January 2013 at 12:19pm

Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by TG12345

I pray He leads you to Him and that you accept what Christ did for you and us all on the cross.

If he has indeed taken my sins in such a degrading way, as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine.

Greetings Rational,

What it means 'that Jesus takes away our sins', is that our sinful nature, through belief, and love for His great sacrifice, is replaced with a conscience that is continually convicting us, and admonishing us, when we are tempted toward sin. This is the way the sacrifice of Jesus saves us. No other sacrifice offered... bulls, goats, sheep, etc. ... ever stung anyone's conscience enough to bring about change... but the sacrifice made by Jesus, and the Love that brings, when we accept Him...

Salaam,
Caringheart

Edited by Caringheart - 17 January 2013 at 12:20pm

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Caringheart

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Posted: 17 January 2013 at 12:23pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by TG12345

I pray He leads you to Him and that you accept what Christ did for you and us all on the cross.

If he has indeed taken my sins in such a degrading way, as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine.

Bravo bro. well said. Every soul is responsible for it's own sins otherwise I could go out tomorrow and murder uncaringheart and give that sin to Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) Astaghfirullah!

No you couldn't Abu, because if you did such a thing it would mean that you do not have Jesus. Having accepted the sacrifice of Jesus means that you could never do such a thing because you would knowingly be committing a sin and yes, you would answer for it.

Having the sacrifice of Jesus is all about repenting from sinful ways.

Salaam,
CH

Without the law we would never see our sins and thus would never repent, so the law still stands, but it is Jesus who brings us to it.

God’s Law Reveals Our Sin

⁷Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.” ⁸But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. ⁹At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, ¹⁰and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. ¹¹Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. ¹²But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good.

¹³But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes.

Struggling with Sin

¹⁴So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
(these are the words of Paul)

Edited by Caringheart - 17 January 2013 at 12:37pm

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Topic: The Final Hurdle of becoming a Muslim is
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Author	Message
Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1330	Posted: 16 January 2013 at 10:59am
	[QUOTE=Abu Loren] You are right. I am scared and I want to run as far away from your stidity as possible. So you think that God should have sent Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) to Emperor Ming in China? Surely that would have been pointless as the Children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt! Read the Holy Qur'an fully and then come back and debate. Also see the thread 'Debating with Christians'. [ /QUOTE] Might I make the recommendation to you also, of reading two things? the thread, A Word about debate**, in General discussion http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24609&PID=172800#172800 and speaking of prophets or prophesy in China; http://www.sacred-texts.com/journals/oc/pc-ilni.htm We are trying to help you come out of the neanderthal age Abu. Salaam. Edited by Caringheart - 16 January 2013 at 11:12am
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Rational Senior Member Joined: 28 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 181	Posted: 17 January 2013 at 4:32am
	السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته *Originally posted by Caringheart* I have yet to have any muslim tell me what it is that they find so objectionable in the teaching of Paul. Paul contradicted everything that Jesus (pbuh) said, did and was Jesus taught that God is ONE, Pauline theology pioneered the Trinity Jesus taught OT law, Paul negated it Jesus taught accountability, Paul taught justification of faith Jesus taught he was son of man, Paul taught Jesus was son of God Jesus said pray to God, Paul said pray to Jesus Jesus taught he was an ethnic prophet not sent but for the lost sheep of israel, Paul taught that Jesus was a universal prophet and on and on and on… Edited by Rational - 17 January 2013 at 5:45am
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Rational Senior Member Joined: 28 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 181	Posted: 17 January 2013 at 5:27am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* I pray He leads you to Him and that you accept what Christ did for you and us all on the cross. If he has indeed taken my sins in such a degrading way, as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine. Edited by Rational - 17 January 2013 at 5:44am
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 17 January 2013 at 7:09am
	*Originally posted by Rational* *Originally posted by TG12345* I pray He leads you to Him and that you accept what Christ did for you and us all on the cross. If he has indeed taken my sins in such a degrading way, as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine. Bravo bro. well said. Every soul is responsible for it's own sins otherwise I could go out tomorrow and murder uncaringheart and give that sin to Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) Astaghfirullah!
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abuayisha Senior Member Joined: 05 October 1999 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4014	Posted: 17 January 2013 at 7:09am
	".....as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine." Nafsi, nafsi (myself, myself), on that Day, indeed you would not want them back.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1330	Posted: 17 January 2013 at 12:08pm
	*Originally posted by Rational* السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته *Originally posted by Caringheart* I have yet to have any muslim tell me what it is that they find so objectionable in the teaching of Paul. Paul contradicted everything that Jesus (pbuh) said, did and was Jesus taught that God is ONE, Pauline theology pioneered the Trinity Jesus taught OT law, Paul negated it Jesus taught accountability, Paul taught justification of faith Jesus taught he was son of man, Paul taught Jesus was son of God Jesus said pray to God, Paul said pray to Jesus Jesus taught he was an ethnic prophet not sent but for the lost sheep of israel, Paul taught that Jesus was a universal prophet and on and on and on… Greetings Rational, By your statements above, You are obviously not aware then, of how often Jesus spoke against the Pharisees and their 'laws'. The trouble is that people do not take the time to read and understand the teaching of Paul. Here are some things you do not understand because you do not have the fullness of God's Word. Rather than me posting a lot here on the forum, please go and read at this link, http://www.eliyah.com/protorah.html which I just came across. It shares much of what I had begun typing to share here on the forum and will save alot of my time and energy. I would also like to throw in that you should read Hebrews 10 at the following link; http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=hebrews%2010&version=NLT I will hope you do justice to the name you choose and take a rational look at the links that I provided. If anything, God chose Paul because he knew the law so well. Salaam, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 17 January 2013 at 12:13pm
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1330	Posted: 17 January 2013 at 12:19pm
	*Originally posted by Rational* *Originally posted by TG12345* I pray He leads you to Him and that you accept what Christ did for you and us all on the cross. If he has indeed taken my sins in such a degrading way, as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine. Greetings Rational, What it means 'that Jesus takes away our sins', is that our sinful nature, through belief, and love for His great sacrifice, is replaced with a conscience that is continually convicting us, and admonishing us, when we are tempted toward sin. This is the way the sacrifice of Jesus saves us. No other sacrifice offered... bulls, goats, sheep, etc. ... ever stung anyone's conscience enough to bring about change... but the sacrifice made by Jesus, and the Love that brings, when we accept Him... Salaam, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 17 January 2013 at 12:20pm
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1330	Posted: 17 January 2013 at 12:23pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by Rational* *Originally posted by TG12345* I pray He leads you to Him and that you accept what Christ did for you and us all on the cross. If he has indeed taken my sins in such a degrading way, as God is my witness, I will ask for them back on judgment day as they are rightfully mine. Bravo bro. well said. Every soul is responsible for it's own sins otherwise I could go out tomorrow and murder uncaringheart and give that sin to Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) Astaghfirullah! No you couldn't Abu, because if you did such a thing it would mean that you do not have Jesus. Having accepted the sacrifice of Jesus means that you could never do such a thing because you would knowingly be committing a sin and yes, you would answer for it. Having the sacrifice of Jesus is all about repenting from sinful ways. Salaam, CH Without the law we would never see our sins and thus would never repent, so the law still stands, but it is Jesus who brings us to it. God’s Law Reveals Our Sin ⁷Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.” ⁸But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. ⁹At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, ¹⁰and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. ¹¹Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. ¹²But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good. ¹³But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes. Struggling with Sin ¹⁴So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. (these are the words of Paul) Edited by Caringheart - 17 January 2013 at 12:37pm
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