IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The Final Hurdle of becoming a Muslim is

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 15 January 2013 at 6:57pm

Originally posted by TG12345

20:42-29

"Go, thou and thy brother, with My Signs, and slacken not, either of you, in keeping Me in remembrance.

"Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds;

"But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear (Allah)."

They (Moses and Aaron) said: "Our Lord! We fear lest he hasten with insolence against us, or lest he transgress all bounds."

He said: "Fear not: for I am with you: I hear and see (everything).

"So go ye both to him, and say, 'Verily we are messengers sent by thy Lord: Send forth, therefore, the Children of Israel with us, and afflict them not: with a Sign, indeed, have we come from thy Lord! and peace to all who follow guidance!

"'Verily it has been revealed to us that the Penalty (awaits) those who reject and turn away.'"

http://quran.com/20

26:10,11

Behold, thy Lord called Moses: "Go to the people of iniquity,-

"The people of the Pharaoh: will they not fear Allah?"

http://quran.com/26

Unless you are going to claim that Pharaoh was Jewish and so were his people, it is pretty obvious that according to the Quran, God sent Moses to the Egyptians as well as to the Israelites.

So you get your information from anti-Islamic sites?

This is their favourite topic, which nobody seems to understand.

Let me explain it again.

Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) an Israelite was sent to Pharoah an Egyptian who was oppressing his people the Israelites. He was sent to pharoah to free his people and not as their Prophet. If God wanted to send a Prophet to the Egyptians then he would have chosen an Egyptian. Get it?

By the way, this is my last 'debate' with you as you don't have any knowledge nor taqwa. I've wasted my time already going back and forth debating with somebody who is like cattle, deaf, dumb and blind.

Adios Amigo!

Edited by Abu Loren - 15 January 2013 at 6:58pm

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nospam001
Male Agnostic
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Joined: 02 October 2012
Location: Australia
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Posts: 150

Posted: 15 January 2013 at 8:26pm

Originally posted by TG12345

I don't believe God would tell people His word can be trusted, and then lie to them. I don't believe Muslims believe Him to be like that either.

Maybe not, but my conjectures are based on some ideas found in modern Christian theodicy.

God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.

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Caringheart

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Posts: 1311

Posted: 15 January 2013 at 8:37pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

So you get your information from anti-Islamic sites?

Adios Amigo!

Ad hominem again?

You are funny. TG is so not anti-Islamic.

Peace Abu.

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TG12345
Male Christian
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Joined: 16 December 2012
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Posts: 280

Posted: 15 January 2013 at 10:08pm

Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren.

Originally posted by TG12345

20:42-29

"Go, thou and thy brother, with My Signs, and slacken not, either of you, in keeping Me in remembrance.

"Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds;

"But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear (Allah)."

They (Moses and Aaron) said: "Our Lord! We fear lest he hasten with insolence against us, or lest he transgress all bounds."

He said: "Fear not: for I am with you: I hear and see (everything).

"'Verily it has been revealed to us that the Penalty (awaits) those who reject and turn away.'"

http://quran.com/20

26:10,11

Behold, thy Lord called Moses: "Go to the people of iniquity,-

"The people of the Pharaoh: will they not fear Allah?"

http://quran.com/26

Unless you are going to claim that Pharaoh was Jewish and so were his people, it is pretty obvious that according to the Quran, God sent Moses to the Egyptians as well as to the Israelites.

Originally posted by Abu Loren

So you get your information from anti-Islamic sites? [/QUOTE]
No, the Quran.

Originally posted by Abu Loren

This is their favourite topic, which nobody seems to understand.Let me explain it again.Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) an Israelite was sent to Pharoah an Egyptian who was oppressing his people the Israelites. He was sent to pharoah to free his people and not as their Prophet. If God wanted to send a Prophet to the Egyptians then he would have chosen an Egyptian. Get it? [/QUOTE]
Moses was a prophet. He was sent to the Pharaoh to tell him to let the Israelites go and to invite him to worship God. This is what the other prophets did to their people.

He was sent to Pharaoh and his people as well as to the Israelite people. Some of the Pharaoh's magicians repented and he killed them. They died because they accepted the message of God that Moses was sent to them to bring.

Clearly the Quran teaches that God sent the prophet Moses to both the Egyptian leaders and to the Israelite people. He told both peoples to turn to God and called them on their sins.

Your statement

"If God wanted to send a Prophet to the Egyptians then he would have chosen an Egyptian."

is not true, because according to your own faith, He sent them a Jew.

[QUOTE=Abu Loren] By the way, this is my last 'debate' with you as you don't have any knowledge nor taqwa. I've wasted my time already going back and forth debating with somebody who is like cattle, deaf, dumb and blind.

In other words, you are unable to prove your assertions or disprove mine, so you are going to insult me and run away.

Feel free to do that. I will keep praying for you my friend. God loves you and perhaps one day you will come to Him.

[QUOTE=Abu Loren] Adios Amigo!

Diostebendiga.

Cristo Vive!

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Abu Loren
Male Islam
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Posted: 16 January 2013 at 1:54am

Originally posted by TG12345

Diostebendiga.

Cristo Vive!

You are right. I am scared and I want to run as far away from your st**idity as possible. So you think that God should have sent Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) to Emperor Ming in China? Surely that would have been pointless as the Children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt! Read the Holy Qur'an fully and then come back and debate.

Also see the thread 'Debating with Christians'.

Edited by Abu Loren - 16 January 2013 at 1:55am

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TG12345
Male Christian
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Joined: 16 December 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 280

Posted: 16 January 2013 at 4:58am

Originally posted by TG12345

Diostebendiga.

Cristo Vive!

Originally posted by Abu Loren

You are right. I am scared and I want to run as far away from your st**idity as possible.

If saying that makes you feel more competent, go ahead...

Originally posted by Abu Loren

So you think that God should have sent Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) to Emperor Ming in China? Surely that would have been pointless as the Children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt! Read the Holy Qur'an fully and then come back and debate.

That's funny, because earlier you just wrote this is our 'last debate' and that I'm 'deaf, blind and dumb' anyways.

I don't think that according to the Quran God should have sent Moses to Emperor Ming. He did though send him to the Pharaoh, to call him to repentance and to let the Israelites go. It's there in the text.

You can deny it all you want. But this is what your holy book says.

Moses was a Prophet. God sent him to Pharaoh and his people and told them to stop sinning and come to God, and to also let the people of Israel go. They refused. Moses took his people and left Egypt. The pursuing Egyptians were drowned. He tried to take his people to the Holy Land but they would not enter because they were afraid to fight the people there. So they went into the desert. They worshiped a golden calf and committed other sins. God gave Moses the Torah.

These are only some things that the Quran teaches about Moses.

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Also see the thread 'Debating with Christians'.

I saw it. I feel the same way about some non-Christians who debate Christianity.

I have been able to refute your rebuttals, and so you get mad and say this will be our last debate and call me st**id.

Fine. Say whatever you want to say.

I will keep being a witness to God regardless of what you think or don't think.

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Matt Browne
Male Christian
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Joined: 19 April 2010
Location: Germany
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Posts: 755

Posted: 16 January 2013 at 7:27am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Abu Loren, I understand that you completely believe in what you believe in, but I do not. You have been free to challenge me, have you not? I also challenge what you believe.

Caringheart, according to the Sharia challenging Islam is a crime.

Challenging Christianity used to be a crime, but the Inquisition ended centuries ago. Because Christians are used to challenges and critical thinking and debate we sent people to the moon and invented web browsers and the software Islamicity runs on.

Most Christians are secure in their faith, so we can also handle insults. Yet insults in Islam mean the death penalty. Many Muslims are not yet secure in their faith. They are outraged when it comes to questioning their faith.

Many Muslims would choose to leave Islam, but by making apostacy a crime that requires the death penalty, these Muslims are trapped. They have to pretend to be Muslims and the Ummah proudly proclaims that Islam is the fastest growing religion. What an absurd miscalculation.

Why do progressive Muslims not organize demonstrations against the death penalty for apostacy. Why does the silent majority who want reform remain silent?

Edited by Matt Browne - 16 January 2013 at 7:38am

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Abu Loren
Male Islam
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Joined: 29 June 2012
Location: United Arab Emirates
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Posts: 568

Posted: 16 January 2013 at 8:54am

Originally posted by Matt Browne

So says the know it all NAZI Herr Matthias Braun.

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Topic: The Final Hurdle of becoming a Muslim is
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 6:57pm
	*Originally posted by TG12345* 20:42-29 "Go, thou and thy brother, with My Signs, and slacken not, either of you, in keeping Me in remembrance. *"Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds;* *"But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear (Allah)."* They (Moses and Aaron) said: "Our Lord! We fear lest he hasten with insolence against us, or lest he transgress all bounds." He said: "Fear not: for I am with you: I hear and see (everything). "So go ye both to him, and say, 'Verily we are messengers sent by thy Lord: Send forth, therefore, the Children of Israel with us, and afflict them not: with a Sign, indeed, have we come from thy Lord! and peace to all who follow guidance! "'Verily it has been revealed to us that the Penalty (awaits) those who reject and turn away.'" http://quran.com/20 26:10,11 Behold, thy Lord called Moses: "Go to the people of iniquity,- "The people of the Pharaoh: will they not fear Allah?" http://quran.com/26 Unless you are going to claim that Pharaoh was Jewish and so were his people, it is pretty obvious that according to the Quran, God sent Moses to the Egyptians as well as to the Israelites. So you get your information from anti-Islamic sites? This is their favourite topic, which nobody seems to understand. Let me explain it again. Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) an Israelite was sent to Pharoah an Egyptian who was oppressing his people the Israelites. He was sent to pharoah to free his people and not as their Prophet. If God wanted to send a Prophet to the Egyptians then he would have chosen an Egyptian. Get it? By the way, this is my last 'debate' with you as you don't have any knowledge nor taqwa. I've wasted my time already going back and forth debating with somebody who is like cattle, deaf, dumb and blind. Adios Amigo! Edited by Abu Loren - 15 January 2013 at 6:58pm
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nospam001 Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 02 October 2012 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 150	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 8:26pm
	*Originally posted by TG12345* I don't believe God would tell people His word can be trusted, and then lie to them. I don't believe Muslims believe Him to be like that either. Maybe not, but my conjectures are based on some ideas found in modern Christian theodicy.
	God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 8:37pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* So you get your information from anti-Islamic sites? By the way, this is my last 'debate' with you as you don't have any knowledge nor taqwa. I've wasted my time already going back and forth debating with somebody who is like cattle, deaf, dumb and blind. Adios Amigo! Ad hominem again? You are funny. TG is so not anti-Islamic. Peace Abu.
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 280	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 10:08pm
	Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. *Originally posted by TG12345* 20:42-29 "Go, thou and thy brother, with My Signs, and slacken not, either of you, in keeping Me in remembrance. *"Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds;* *"But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear (Allah)."* They (Moses and Aaron) said: "Our Lord! We fear lest he hasten with insolence against us, or lest he transgress all bounds." He said: "Fear not: for I am with you: I hear and see (everything). "So go ye both to him, and say, 'Verily we are messengers sent by thy Lord: Send forth, therefore, the Children of Israel with us, and afflict them not: with a Sign, indeed, have we come from thy Lord! and peace to all who follow guidance! "'Verily it has been revealed to us that the Penalty (awaits) those who reject and turn away.'" http://quran.com/20 26:10,11 Behold, thy Lord called Moses: "Go to the people of iniquity,- "The people of the Pharaoh: will they not fear Allah?" http://quran.com/26 Unless you are going to claim that Pharaoh was Jewish and so were his people, it is pretty obvious that according to the Quran, God sent Moses to the Egyptians as well as to the Israelites. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* So you get your information from anti-Islamic sites? [/QUOTE] No, the Quran. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* This is their favourite topic, which nobody seems to understand.Let me explain it again.Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) an Israelite was sent to Pharoah an Egyptian who was oppressing his people the Israelites. He was sent to pharoah to free his people and not as their Prophet. If God wanted to send a Prophet to the Egyptians then he would have chosen an Egyptian. Get it? [/QUOTE] Moses was a prophet. He was sent to the Pharaoh to tell him to let the Israelites go and to invite him to worship God. This is what the other prophets did to their people. He was sent to Pharaoh and his people as well as to the Israelite people. Some of the Pharaoh's magicians repented and he killed them. They died because they accepted the message of God that Moses was sent to them to bring. Clearly the Quran teaches that God sent the prophet Moses to both the Egyptian leaders and to the Israelite people. He told both peoples to turn to God and called them on their sins. Your statement "If God wanted to send a Prophet to the Egyptians then he would have chosen an Egyptian." is not true, because according to your own faith, He sent them a Jew. [QUOTE=Abu Loren] By the way, this is my last 'debate' with you as you don't have any knowledge nor taqwa. I've wasted my time already going back and forth debating with somebody who is like cattle, deaf, dumb and blind. In other words, you are unable to prove your assertions or disprove mine, so you are going to insult me and run away. Feel free to do that. I will keep praying for you my friend. God loves you and perhaps one day you will come to Him. [QUOTE=Abu Loren] Adios Amigo! Diostebendiga. Cristo Vive!
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 16 January 2013 at 1:54am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* Diostebendiga. Cristo Vive! You are right. I am scared and I want to run as far away from your st**idity as possible. So you think that God should have sent Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) to Emperor Ming in China? Surely that would have been pointless as the Children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt! Read the Holy Qur'an fully and then come back and debate. Also see the thread 'Debating with Christians'. Edited by Abu Loren - 16 January 2013 at 1:55am
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 280	Posted: 16 January 2013 at 4:58am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* Diostebendiga. Cristo Vive! *Originally posted by Abu Loren* You are right. I am scared and I want to run as far away from your stidity as possible. If saying that makes you feel more competent, go ahead... Originally posted by Abu Loren So you think that God should have sent Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) to Emperor Ming in China? Surely that would have been pointless as the Children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt! Read the Holy Qur'an fully and then come back and debate. That's funny, because earlier you just wrote this is our 'last debate' and that I'm 'deaf, blind and dumb' anyways. I don't think that according to the Quran God should have sent Moses to Emperor Ming. He did though send him to the Pharaoh, to call him to repentance and to let the Israelites go. It's there in the text. You can deny it all you want. But this is what your holy book says. Moses was a Prophet. God sent him to Pharaoh and his people and told them to stop sinning and come to God, and to also let the people of Israel go. They refused. Moses took his people and left Egypt. The pursuing Egyptians were drowned. He tried to take his people to the Holy Land but they would not enter because they were afraid to fight the people there. So they went into the desert. They worshiped a golden calf and committed other sins. God gave Moses the Torah. These are only some things that the Quran teaches about Moses. Originally posted by Abu Loren Also see the thread 'Debating with Christians'. I saw it. I feel the same way about some non-Christians who debate Christianity. I have been able to refute your rebuttals, and so you get mad and say this will be our last debate and call me stid. Fine. Say whatever you want to say. I will keep being a witness to God regardless of what you think or don't think.
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Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 16 January 2013 at 7:27am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Abu Loren, I understand that you completely believe in what you believe in, but I do not. You have been free to challenge me, have you not? I also challenge what you believe. Caringheart, according to the Sharia challenging Islam is a crime. Challenging Christianity used to be a crime, but the Inquisition ended centuries ago. Because Christians are used to challenges and critical thinking and debate we sent people to the moon and invented web browsers and the software Islamicity runs on. Most Christians are secure in their faith, so we can also handle insults. Yet insults in Islam mean the death penalty. Many Muslims are not yet secure in their faith. They are outraged when it comes to questioning their faith. Many Muslims would choose to leave Islam, but by making apostacy a crime that requires the death penalty, these Muslims are trapped. They have to pretend to be Muslims and the Ummah proudly proclaims that Islam is the fastest growing religion. What an absurd miscalculation. Why do progressive Muslims not organize demonstrations against the death penalty for apostacy. Why does the silent majority who want reform remain silent? Edited by Matt Browne - 16 January 2013 at 7:38am
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 16 January 2013 at 8:54am
	*Originally posted by Matt Browne* *Originally posted by Caringheart* Abu Loren, I understand that you completely believe in what you believe in, but I do not. You have been free to challenge me, have you not? I also challenge what you believe. Caringheart, according to the Sharia challenging Islam is a crime. Challenging Christianity used to be a crime, but the Inquisition ended centuries ago. Because Christians are used to challenges and critical thinking and debate we sent people to the moon and invented web browsers and the software Islamicity runs on. Most Christians are secure in their faith, so we can also handle insults. Yet insults in Islam mean the death penalty. Many Muslims are not yet secure in their faith. They are outraged when it comes to questioning their faith. Many Muslims would choose to leave Islam, but by making apostacy a crime that requires the death penalty, these Muslims are trapped. They have to pretend to be Muslims and the Ummah proudly proclaims that Islam is the fastest growing religion. What an absurd miscalculation. Why do progressive Muslims not organize demonstrations against the death penalty for apostacy. Why does the silent majority who want reform remain silent? So says the know it all NAZI Herr Matthias Braun.
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