IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The Final Hurdle of becoming a Muslim is

Originally posted by TG12345

Funny how she never called you that.

What makes you need to stoop so low to need to resort to name calling?

You and uncaringheart have never read the Holy Qur'an yet you both want to debate Islam? If you haven't realised it already what you are doing is sowing doubts in the believers minds and this is a grat sin. Go back and read uncaringheart's posts and I've said before that what s/he writes is poison.

Believe me I will stoop even lower....

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Originally posted by TG12345

I am really not trying to be insulting to you, but you haven't provided rebuttals to my points.

Most people won't give you the time of day as you've come here to debate with Muslims without even reading the Holy Qur'an. But I feel sorry for you as you remind me of myself when I was a Christian lost and looking for answers. :)

1. You haven't managed to prove that Muhammad was right that 7 dates in the morning would cause that no toxins could harm a person.

So you are a man of proof? A man of science? You want to feed a poor soul seven dates from Medina and then put a venomous snake around his neck? OK good….

A believer who is sincere and who eats seven dates may be spared from death of toxins and poison. We don’t know do we?

2. You haven't managed to prove that there ever was the existence of a book called the Injil, a book that Christians allegedly believed in before they believed the Quran.

I’ve already answered this in another thread, but like many Christians you only want to see what you want to see. Do you accept that Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) received a revelation from God and later it was written down into a book from and is called the Torah? Do you also accept that Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) also recived revelations from God and it was called the Injil in Arabic. Part of these revelations are in the Gospels although it is corrupted by man made additions and deletions. Not all of the books made it into the Gospels as the Trinitarians hijacked it and only included their own doctrine.

3. You haven't shown me a verse from the Quran that calls on adulterers to be stoned to death, even though Muhammad claimed he judged the shepherd's son and the woman who committed adultery with him on the basis of the Quran.

Again I told you in another thread that when Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was asked to judge a Jew he asked for the Torah, and as you know the Torah is also from God so it is also ‘Alllah’s book (Laws)’. The Torah is also corrupted by man made additions and deletions.

I’ve also provided the verse from the Holy Qur’an which stipulates death for an adulterer. The Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Sallam) tells us that it is by stoning that this punishment is to be carried out. Otherwise, we could kill that person in any manner of things.

4. You haven't explained how is it possible that allegedly God told humanity that milk is pleasant for those who drink it, even though there are people with milk allergies who this pure drink literally kills. (refer to point made above to W.S.)

This is silly just like Christianity. Of course milk is good for humanity. You want God to tell us ‘Oh those with milk allergies please don’t drink it’.

5. You haven't explained how it is possible that before Muhammad the prophets were all sent to their nation only, but simultaneously Moses, who we agree was an Israelite and not Egyptian, was sent to Pharaoh, who was an Egyptian. (refer to point above made by W.S.)

Again silliness extraordinaire. You started a thread asking questions about Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and we gave you the answers with which you were satisfied. Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) was not sent to Egyptians but to set free his people the Children of Israel who were in bondage and who were oppressed with a great oppression. Do you not know that he took them out of Egypt and took them to the Promised Land? Did he take the Egyptians or the Jews?

[/QUOTE]
If you say things like Muhammad was an intellignet person and that he meant well then nobody here will take you seriously.

Edited by Abu Loren - 15 January 2013 at 4:19am

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Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by TG12345

Funny how she never called you that.

What makes you need to stoop so low to need to resort to name calling?

You and uncaringheart have never read the Holy Qur'an yet you both want to debate Islam? If you haven't realised it already what you are doing is sowing doubts in the believers minds and this is a grat sin. Go back and read uncaringheart's posts and I've said before that what s/he writes is poison.

Believe me I will stoop even lower....

Peace Abu,

I will correct you. I am reading and studying the quran. I have told you this before but will repeat for the sake of others who may be reading.

Is it a poison if I am saving you from evil? If you are following someone, something, not God? Shouldn't you want to be sure? If I can see the problems with your teaching wouldn't I be doing you an injustice NOT to point them out?
Don't you point out the problems you see with Christianity in an effort to save their souls? Or do you have some other purpose?

My purpose is to see souls, and lives, preserved and saved for their Maker.

A poison?
Never once do I speak of not following God and His ways, seeking God and His ways.. being a believer.

Salaam,
CH

note: "Believe me I will stoop even lower...."
Doesn't this show what kind of god you serve? Doesn't it show the blackness upon your soul?

Edited by Caringheart - 15 January 2013 at 12:41pm

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Hi Caringheart,

Just a comment on one thing you said to Abu Loren.

note: "Believe me I will stoop even lower...."
Doesn't this show what kind of god you serve? Doesn't it show the blackness upon your soul?

I don't know exactly what you are trying to say here, but if you are implying that Abu Loren's arrogance is an indicator of Islam please don't say that.

There are many Muslims on this forum, like Nausheen and W.S. and rational and others who I have never seen launching personal attacks. They hold true to their faith and propagate it and express their opposition to and challenge and debate beliefs that according to them are false (exactly like what we do), and do so in a way that does not involve name calling or insults or mocking another person's beliefs.

Their conduct is no less representative of Islam, if not more so actually, than Abu Loren's.

Peace in Christ.

*If I misunderstood your words and you were trying to say something else, please accept my apologies, but to me this sounded like you were implying that.

Edited by TG12345 - 15 January 2013 at 1:32pm

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Author	Message
Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 2:17am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* Funny how she never called you that. What makes you need to stoop so low to need to resort to name calling? You and uncaringheart have never read the Holy Qur'an yet you both want to debate Islam? If you haven't realised it already what you are doing is sowing doubts in the believers minds and this is a grat sin. Go back and read uncaringheart's posts and I've said before that what s/he writes is poison. Believe me I will stoop even lower....
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 2:20am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* Paul was a man of God, who met Jesus personally and taught about Him and suffered for his faith in Him. Muhammad believed in God and believed he was His prophet. In spite of this, he said some things that are evidently not true and contradicted the teachings of the same book he claimed God sent down to him. You are right, it isn't fair to compare Paul to him. However, I will not judge Muhammad as you judge Paul. I leave judgement to God, and will instead witness to the Truth. Apart from Paul's cliam that he saw 'the risen Christ' show me where Paul met Jesus (Alayhi Salaam)?
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 3:35am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* I am really not trying to be insulting to you, but you haven't provided rebuttals to my points. Most people won't give you the time of day as you've come here to debate with Muslims without even reading the Holy Qur'an. But I feel sorry for you as you remind me of myself when I was a Christian lost and looking for answers. :) 1. You haven't managed to prove that Muhammad was right that 7 dates in the morning would cause that no toxins could harm a person. So you are a man of proof? A man of science? You want to feed a poor soul seven dates from Medina and then put a venomous snake around his neck? OK good…. A believer who is sincere and who eats seven dates may be spared from death of toxins and poison. We don’t know do we? 2. You haven't managed to prove that there ever was the existence of a book called the Injil, a book that Christians allegedly believed in before they believed the Quran. I’ve already answered this in another thread, but like many Christians you only want to see what you want to see. Do you accept that Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) received a revelation from God and later it was written down into a book from and is called the Torah? Do you also accept that Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) also recived revelations from God and it was called the Injil in Arabic. Part of these revelations are in the Gospels although it is corrupted by man made additions and deletions. Not all of the books made it into the Gospels as the Trinitarians hijacked it and only included their own doctrine. 3. You haven't shown me a verse from the Quran that calls on adulterers to be stoned to death, even though Muhammad claimed he judged the shepherd's son and the woman who committed adultery with him on the basis of the Quran. Again I told you in another thread that when Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was asked to judge a Jew he asked for the Torah, and as you know the Torah is also from God so it is also ‘Alllah’s book (Laws)’. The Torah is also corrupted by man made additions and deletions. I’ve also provided the verse from the Holy Qur’an which stipulates death for an adulterer. The Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Sallam) tells us that it is by stoning that this punishment is to be carried out. Otherwise, we could kill that person in any manner of things. 4. You haven't explained how is it possible that allegedly God told humanity that milk is pleasant for those who drink it, even though there are people with milk allergies who this pure drink literally kills. (refer to point made above to W.S.) This is silly just like Christianity. Of course milk is good for humanity. You want God to tell us ‘Oh those with milk allergies please don’t drink it’. 5. You haven't explained how it is possible that before Muhammad the prophets were all sent to their nation only, but simultaneously Moses, who we agree was an Israelite and not Egyptian, was sent to Pharaoh, who was an Egyptian. (refer to point above made by W.S.) Again silliness extraordinaire. You started a thread asking questions about Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and we gave you the answers with which you were satisfied. Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) was not sent to Egyptians but to set free his people the Children of Israel who were in bondage and who were oppressed with a great oppression. Do you not know that he took them out of Egypt and took them to the Promised Land? Did he take the Egyptians or the Jews? [/QUOTE] If you say things like Muhammad was an intellignet person and that he meant well then nobody here will take you seriously. Edited by Abu Loren - 15 January 2013 at 4:19am
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W.S. Guest Group Joined: 14 August 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 88	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 8:45am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* I have other examples but because of time constraints will leave it here for now. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Thanks for the reply! For now, I'll just say that I have discerned a couple of cracks before, and now more of them appeared. Take care yourself!
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 11:50am
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by TG12345* Funny how she never called you that. What makes you need to stoop so low to need to resort to name calling? You and uncaringheart have never read the Holy Qur'an yet you both want to debate Islam? If you haven't realised it already what you are doing is sowing doubts in the believers minds and this is a grat sin. Go back and read uncaringheart's posts and I've said before that what s/he writes is poison. Believe me I will stoop even lower.... Peace Abu, I will correct you. I am reading and studying the quran. I have told you this before but will repeat for the sake of others who may be reading. Is it a poison if I am saving you from evil? If you are following someone, something, not God? Shouldn't you want to be sure? If I can see the problems with your teaching wouldn't I be doing you an injustice NOT to point them out? Don't you point out the problems you see with Christianity in an effort to save their souls? Or do you have some other purpose? My purpose is to see souls, and lives, preserved and saved for their Maker. A poison? Never once do I speak of not following God and His ways, seeking God and His ways.. being a believer. Salaam, CH note: "Believe me I will stoop even lower...." Doesn't this show what kind of god you serve? Doesn't it show the blackness upon your soul? Edited by Caringheart - 15 January 2013 at 12:41pm
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 12:49pm
	*Originally posted by TG12345* *Originally posted by Abu Loren* By the way, you can't compare Paul to Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) because Paul was a charlatan and Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was a Prophet of God Almighty. Paul was a man of God, who met Jesus personally and taught about Him and suffered for his faith in Him. Muhammad believed in God and believed he was His prophet. In spite of this, he said some things that are evidently not true and contradicted the teachings of the same book he claimed God sent down to him. You are right, it isn't fair to compare Paul to him. I have yet to have any muslim tell me what it is that they find so objectionable in the teaching of Paul.
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 280	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 1:29pm
	Hi Caringheart, Just a comment on one thing you said to Abu Loren. note: "Believe me I will stoop even lower...." Doesn't this show what kind of god you serve? Doesn't it show the blackness upon your soul? I don't know exactly what you are trying to say here, but if you are implying that Abu Loren's arrogance is an indicator of Islam please don't say that. There are many Muslims on this forum, like Nausheen and W.S. and rational and others who I have never seen launching personal attacks. They hold true to their faith and propagate it and express their opposition to and challenge and debate beliefs that according to them are false (exactly like what we do), and do so in a way that does not involve name calling or insults or mocking another person's beliefs. Their conduct is no less representative of Islam, if not more so actually, than Abu Loren's. Peace in Christ. *If I misunderstood your words and you were trying to say something else, please accept my apologies, but to me this sounded like you were implying that. Edited by TG12345 - 15 January 2013 at 1:32pm
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 280	Posted: 15 January 2013 at 1:31pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by TG12345* Paul was a man of God, who met Jesus personally and taught about Him and suffered for his faith in Him. Muhammad believed in God and believed he was His prophet. In spite of this, he said some things that are evidently not true and contradicted the teachings of the same book he claimed God sent down to him. You are right, it isn't fair to compare Paul to him. However, I will not judge Muhammad as you judge Paul. I leave judgement to God, and will instead witness to the Truth. Apart from Paul's cliam that he saw 'the risen Christ' show me where Paul met Jesus (Alayhi Salaam)? He met Him on the road to Damascus. His words were backed up by his actions. Why would a person who had so much power and prestige gve that up to be mocked and persecuted? Where did Muhammad meet Gabriel? Who witnessed this alleged encounter?
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