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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 13 January 2013 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by TG12345

Salaam Alaikum Abu Loren,

I asked you an example from the Quran where adulterers are sentenced to stoning, you provided with me with tafsir Ibn Kathir.

This is the verse:

Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way. 4:15


Please show me where the word "stoning" is found in the above verse. Was Muhammad making his judgement based on the Quran, or on Ibn Kathir's interpretation of it? 4:15 says to confine adulteresses to their homes until they die, or until God finds a better way.

I don't see stoning mentioned anywhere, do you?


Wa Alaikkum
 
What do you think 'until death takes them' mean? Starve to death?
 
Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has always decreed stoning for adultery as it is a great sin. That rule has not been abrogated. So it still stands, hence the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) followd that ruling.
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2013 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by TG12345

Salaam Alaikum Abu Loren,

I asked you an example from the Quran where adulterers are sentenced to stoning, you provided with me with tafsir Ibn Kathir.

This is the verse:

Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way. 4:15


Please show me where the word "stoning" is found in the above verse. Was Muhammad making his judgement based on the Quran, or on Ibn Kathir's interpretation of it? 4:15 says to confine adulteresses to their homes until they die, or until God finds a better way.

I don't see stoning mentioned anywhere, do you?


Originally posted by Abu Loren

Wa Alaikkum
 
What do you think 'until death takes them' mean? Starve to death?
 
Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has always decreed stoning for adultery as it is a great sin. That rule has not been abrogated. So it still stands, hence the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) followed that ruling.


I don't know what 'until death take them' means, the text does not say.

Even if we were to assume that 'until death take them' means death by stoning, Muhammad would still not have followed the Quran because he gave no order to confine the woman to the house before death (according to you, death by stoning) overtook her.

Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way. 4:15


Where in Muhammad's judgement did he order Unais to confine the woman to her house before executing her? Where is there any evidence that Unais did do this?


Furthermore, why is there a verse in the Quran stating clearly that fornicaters are to be whipped, while not stating that adulterers are to be stoned? 24:2 states that fornicaterers and fornicatresses are to be given 100 stripes. There is no verse explicitly stating that adulterers should be stoned.

24:2


(As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement

http://quran.com/24/2

What I find very interesting is that the Yusuf Ali Quran translation (the Quran version I am reading) states this punishment applies to both fornicaterers and adulterers.


The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.


http://quran.com/24/2






Edited by TG12345 - 15 January 2013 at 3:34pm
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