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Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by TG12345

Salaam Alaikum Abu Loren and thank you for the explanation. To clarify, is Allah's Book (Laws) a reference to the Quran? 

Were the Laws in Muhammad's time in book code like the hadiths and he was referring a book of Laws based on the Quran, or is the Book of Allah (Laws) simply the Quran?

Thanks so much!

Allah's Book (Laws) is only a reference to the Holy Qur'an for Muslims. However, the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) also testified that the Torah is a book of Law for the Jews.

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar:The Jews came to Allah's Messenger () and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had  committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah's Messenger () said to them, "What do you find in the Torah  (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?" They replied, (But) we announce  their crime and lash them." `Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie; Torah contains the order  of Rajm." They brought and opened the Torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm  and read the verses preceding and following it. `Abdullah bin Salam said to him, "Lift your hand."  When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, "Muhammad has told the  truth; the Torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet () then gave the order that both of them should be  stoned to death. (`Abdullah bin `Umar said, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her  from the stones."
As far as my understanding goes, the Arabs in Prophet Muhammad's (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) did not follow any devine Law. In fact they were all idolators and were lawless until the Laws in the Holy Qur'an were revealed.

You're probably confused about the relationship between the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths. The Holy Qur'an was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) through the Archangel Jibril (Alayhi Salaam) therefore this book is directly from God. The Hadiths however are the record of the actions and sayings of Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alahyhi Wa Sallam) as recorded by his companions. In these Hadiths the Holy Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) explains the meanings of the Holy Qur'an and other things such as how we are to conduct ourselves in this world to receive God's Mercy.

Salaam Alaikum, 

If I understand correctly, the Book of Allah (Laws) is according to your understanding only the Quran when mentioned in the hadiths, and when the Torah is mentioned it is mentioned as the Torah and Muhammad used it to judge the Jews when they asked him to pass judgement in the case of the man and woman who committed adultery. The Quran is a book you believe was given by God to Muhammad through Gabriel, and the hadiths are an explanation of what the Quran teaches as well as other things that are important to know to live in a way that is pleasing to God.

 Would that be a correct understanding of your words? Thanks.

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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 281	Posted: 10 January 2013 at 4:41am
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by TG12345* Salaam Alaikum Abu Loren and thank you for the explanation. To clarify, is Allah's Book (Laws) a reference to the Quran? Were the Laws in Muhammad's time in book code like the hadiths and he was referring a book of Laws based on the Quran, or is the Book of Allah (Laws) simply the Quran? Thanks so much! Allah's Book (Laws) is only a reference to the Holy Qur'an for Muslims. However, the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) also testified that the Torah is a book of Law for the Jews. Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar: The Jews came to Allah's Messenger () and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah's Messenger () said to them, "What do you find in the Torah (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?" They replied, (But) we announce their crime and lash them." `Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie; Torah contains the order of Rajm." They brought and opened the Torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm and read the verses preceding and following it. `Abdullah bin Salam said to him, "Lift your hand." When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, "Muhammad has told the truth; the Torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet () then gave the order that both of them should be stoned to death. (`Abdullah bin `Umar said, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her from the stones." As far as my understanding goes, the Arabs in Prophet Muhammad's (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) did not follow any devine Law. In fact they were all idolators and were lawless until the Laws in the Holy Qur'an were revealed. You're probably confused about the relationship between the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths. The Holy Qur'an was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) through the Archangel Jibril (Alayhi Salaam) therefore this book is directly from God. The Hadiths however are the record of the actions and sayings of Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alahyhi Wa Sallam) as recorded by his companions. In these Hadiths the Holy Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) explains the meanings of the Holy Qur'an and other things such as how we are to conduct ourselves in this world to receive God's Mercy. Salaam Alaikum, If I understand correctly, the Book of Allah (Laws) is according to your understanding only the Quran when mentioned in the hadiths, and when the Torah is mentioned it is mentioned as the Torah and Muhammad used it to judge the Jews when they asked him to pass judgement in the case of the man and woman who committed adultery. The Quran is a book you believe was given by God to Muhammad through Gabriel, and the hadiths are an explanation of what the Quran teaches as well as other things that are important to know to live in a way that is pleasing to God. Would that be a correct understanding of your words? Thanks.
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 10 January 2013 at 9:54am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* Salaam Alaikum, If I understand correctly, the Book of Allah (Laws) is according to your understanding only the Quran when mentioned in the hadiths, and when the Torah is mentioned it is mentioned as the Torah and Muhammad used it to judge the Jews when they asked him to pass judgement in the case of the man and woman who committed adultery. The Quran is a book you believe was given by God to Muhammad through Gabriel, and the hadiths are an explanation of what the Quran teaches as well as other things that are important to know to live in a way that is pleasing to God. Would that be a correct understanding of your words? Thanks. Do you have problems understanding English? Edited by Abu Loren - 10 January 2013 at 9:55am
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 281	Posted: 10 January 2013 at 4:14pm
	*Originally posted by TG12345* Salaam Alaikum, If I understand correctly, the Book of Allah (Laws) is according to your understanding only the Quran when mentioned in the hadiths, and when the Torah is mentioned it is mentioned as the Torah and Muhammad used it to judge the Jews when they asked him to pass judgement in the case of the man and woman who committed adultery. The Quran is a book you believe was given by God to Muhammad through Gabriel, and the hadiths are an explanation of what the Quran teaches as well as other things that are important to know to live in a way that is pleasing to God. Would that be a correct understanding of your words? Thanks. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* Do you have problems understanding English? Thanks for asking, that is very considerate of you. English actually isn't my first language but no, I don't have problems understanding it. I asked to clarify if I understood what you were saying correctly, so I am not misinterpreting you or twisting your words. Edited by TG12345 - 10 January 2013 at 5:11pm
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 281	Posted: 10 January 2013 at 5:30pm
	Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. Is "Allah's Book" a reference to the Quran in this hadith? I am assuming this is the case, since I don't see why a Bedouin would want Muhammad to judge his son on the basis of the Torah. "Allah's Book" in this hadith refers to the Quran, right? If I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks. (34) Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were with Allah's Apostle a bedouin got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Settle my case according to Allah's Book (Laws)." Then his opponent got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! He has said the truth! Settle his case according to Allah's Book (Laws.) and allow me to speak," He said, "My son was a laborer for this man and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death but I ransomed him with one-hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious learned people and they told me that his wife should be stoned to death and my son should receive one-hundred lashes and be sentenced to one year of exile.' The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Book (Laws): As for the slave girl and the sheep, they are to be returned; and as for your son, he shall receive one-hundred lashes and will be exiled for one year. You, O Unais!" addressing a man from Bani Aslam, "Go tomorrow morning to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses, then stone her to death." The next morning Unais went to the wife and she confessed, and he stoned her to death. (Book #91, Hadith #365) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=allah\%27s+book&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=50&search_word=exact
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 11 January 2013 at 1:03pm
	*Originally posted by TG12345* Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. Is "Allah's Book" a reference to the Quran in this hadith? I am assuming this is the case, since I don't see why a Bedouin would want Muhammad to judge his son on the basis of the Torah. "Allah's Book" in this hadith refers to the Quran, right? If I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks. (34) Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were with Allah's Apostle a bedouin got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Settle my case according to Allah's Book (Laws)." Then his opponent got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! He has said the truth! Settle his case according to Allah's Book (Laws.) and allow me to speak," He said, "My son was a laborer for this man and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death but I ransomed him with one-hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious learned people and they told me that his wife should be stoned to death and my son should receive one-hundred lashes and be sentenced to one year of exile.' The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Book (Laws): As for the slave girl and the sheep, they are to be returned; and as for your son, he shall receive one-hundred lashes and will be exiled for one year. You, O Unais!" addressing a man from Bani Aslam, "Go tomorrow morning to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses, then stone her to death." The next morning Unais went to the wife and she confessed, and he stoned her to death. (Book #91, Hadith #365) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=allah\%27s+book&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=50&search_word=exact Yes from the Holy Qur'an. 100 lashes for fornication and stoning for adultery.
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 281	Posted: 12 January 2013 at 6:31am
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by TG12345* Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. Is "Allah's Book" a reference to the Quran in this hadith? I am assuming this is the case, since I don't see why a Bedouin would want Muhammad to judge his son on the basis of the Torah. "Allah's Book" in this hadith refers to the Quran, right? If I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks. (34) Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were with Allah's Apostle a bedouin got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Settle my case according to Allah's Book (Laws)." Then his opponent got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! He has said the truth! Settle his case according to Allah's Book (Laws.) and allow me to speak," He said, "My son was a laborer for this man and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death but I ransomed him with one-hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious learned people and they told me that his wife should be stoned to death and my son should receive one-hundred lashes and be sentenced to one year of exile.' The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Book (Laws): As for the slave girl and the sheep, they are to be returned; and as for your son, he shall receive one-hundred lashes and will be exiled for one year. You, O Unais!" addressing a man from Bani Aslam, "Go tomorrow morning to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses, then stone her to death." The next morning Unais went to the wife and she confessed, and he stoned her to death. (Book #91, Hadith #365) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=allah\%27s+book&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=50&search_word=exact Yes from the Holy Qur'an. 100 lashes for fornication and stoning for adultery. Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. The Quran does indeed prescribe 100 lashes for fornication. Where does it prescribe stoning for adultery? Also, where does it prescribe exile for fornicators? Thanks. Edited by TG12345 - 12 January 2013 at 4:05pm
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:51am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* *Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by TG12345* Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. Is "Allah's Book" a reference to the Quran in this hadith? I am assuming this is the case, since I don't see why a Bedouin would want Muhammad to judge his son on the basis of the Torah. "Allah's Book" in this hadith refers to the Quran, right? If I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks. (34) Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were with Allah's Apostle a bedouin got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Settle my case according to Allah's Book (Laws)." Then his opponent got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! He has said the truth! Settle his case according to Allah's Book (Laws.) and allow me to speak," He said, "My son was a laborer for this man and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death but I ransomed him with one-hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious learned people and they told me that his wife should be stoned to death and my son should receive one-hundred lashes and be sentenced to one year of exile.' The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Book (Laws): As for the slave girl and the sheep, they are to be returned; and as for your son, he shall receive one-hundred lashes and will be exiled for one year. You, O Unais!" addressing a man from Bani Aslam, "Go tomorrow morning to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses, then stone her to death." The next morning Unais went to the wife and she confessed, and he stoned her to death. (Book #91, Hadith #365) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=allah\%27s+book&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=50&search_word=exact Yes from the Holy Qur'an. 100 lashes for fornication and stoning for adultery. Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. The Quran does indeed prescribe 100 lashes for fornication. Where does it prescribe stoning for adultery? Also, where does it prescribe exile for fornicators? Thanks. Sahih International Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way. 4:15 تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn { وَٱللاَّتِي يَأْتِينَ ٱلْفَٰحِشَةَ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ فَٱسْتَشْهِدُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ أَرْبَعةً مِّنْكُمْ فَإِن شَهِدُواْ فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ فِي ٱلْبُيُوتِ حَتَّىٰ يَتَوَفَّاهُنَّ ٱلْمَوْتُ أَوْ يَجْعَلَ ٱللَّهُ لَهُنَّ سَبِيلاً } As for those of your women who commit lewdness, adultery, call four, Muslim men, of you to witness against them; and if they witness, against them such [lewdness], then detain them in their houses, and prevent them from mixing with people, until, the angels of, death take them or, until, God appoints for them a way, out of it. This was stipulated for them at the very beginning of Islam, but then a way out was appointed for them through [the stipulation] that the virgin should receive a hundred lashes and be banished for a year, and the married woman be stoned. The prescribed punishment was explained thus in the hadīth, ‘Come listen to me! Come listen to me! God has now made a way out for them’, as reported by Muslim.
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 281	Posted: 13 January 2013 at 11:39am
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by TG12345* *Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by TG12345* Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. Is "Allah's Book" a reference to the Quran in this hadith? I am assuming this is the case, since I don't see why a Bedouin would want Muhammad to judge his son on the basis of the Torah. "Allah's Book" in this hadith refers to the Quran, right? If I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks. (34) Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were with Allah's Apostle a bedouin got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Settle my case according to Allah's Book (Laws)." Then his opponent got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! He has said the truth! Settle his case according to Allah's Book (Laws.) and allow me to speak," He said, "My son was a laborer for this man and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death but I ransomed him with one-hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious learned people and they told me that his wife should be stoned to death and my son should receive one-hundred lashes and be sentenced to one year of exile.' The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Book (Laws): As for the slave girl and the sheep, they are to be returned; and as for your son, he shall receive one-hundred lashes and will be exiled for one year. You, O Unais!" addressing a man from Bani Aslam, "Go tomorrow morning to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses, then stone her to death." The next morning Unais went to the wife and she confessed, and he stoned her to death. (Book #91, Hadith #365) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=allah\%27s+book&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=50&search_word=exact Yes from the Holy Qur'an. 100 lashes for fornication and stoning for adultery. Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. The Quran does indeed prescribe 100 lashes for fornication. Where does it prescribe stoning for adultery? Also, where does it prescribe exile for fornicators? Thanks. Sahih International Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way. 4:15 تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn { وَٱللاَّتِي يَأْتِينَ ٱلْفَٰحِشَةَ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ فَٱسْتَشْهِدُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ أَرْبَعةً مِّنْكُمْ فَإِن شَهِدُواْ فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ فِي ٱلْبُيُوتِ حَتَّىٰ يَتَوَفَّاهُنَّ ٱلْمَوْتُ أَوْ يَجْعَلَ ٱللَّهُ لَهُنَّ سَبِيلاً } As for those of your women who commit lewdness, adultery, call four, Muslim men, of you to witness against them; and if they witness, against them such [lewdness], then detain them in their houses, and prevent them from mixing with people, until, the angels of, death take them or, until, God appoints for them a way, out of it. This was stipulated for them at the very beginning of Islam, but then a way out was appointed for them through [the stipulation] that the virgin should receive a hundred lashes and be banished for a year, and the married woman be stoned. The prescribed punishment was explained thus in the hadīth, ‘Come listen to me! Come listen to me! God has now made a way out for them’, as reported by Muslim. Salaam Alaikum Abu Loren, I asked you an example from the Quran where adulterers are sentenced to stoning, you provided with me with tafsir Ibn Kathir. This is the verse: Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way. 4:15 Please show me where the word "stoning" is found in the above verse. Was Muhammad making his judgement based on the Quran, or on Ibn Kathir's interpretation of it? 4:15 says to confine adulteresses to their homes until they die, or until God finds a better way. I don't see stoning mentioned anywhere, do you?
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