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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Topic: Christians and Jews Will receive a Double Reward
    Posted: 06 January 2013 at 2:34am
As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
Good news for Christians and Jews.
 
Abu Burdah bin Abi Musa narrated from his father that the Messenger of Allah said:
"Three will receive their reward twice: A slave who fulfills the rights of Allah and the rights of his owners, then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who has a beautiful slave girl, so he teaches her good manners, then he frees her, then he married her seeking the Face of Allah by that; then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who believed in an earlier Book, then another Book came to him and he believed in it; then he will be given his reward twice."
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 06 January 2013 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
Good news for Christians and Jews.
 
Abu Burdah bin Abi Musa narrated from his father that the Messenger of Allah said:
"Three will receive their reward twice: A slave who fulfills the rights of Allah and the rights of his owners, then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who has a beautiful slave girl, so he teaches her good manners, then he frees her, then he married her seeking the Face of Allah by that; then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who believed in an earlier Book, then another Book came to him and he believed in it; then he will be given his reward twice."

Salaam Alaikum.

Do you believe this applies to Christians and Jews today, or during Muhammad's time only?

Also, what does the term "believe in" the earlier Book and "believe in" another Book mean? I would assume that means reading it and believing in what it says, am I right?


Edited by TG12345 - 06 January 2013 at 9:33pm
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2013 at 2:14am
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
Good news for Christians and Jews.
 
Abu Burdah bin Abi Musa narrated from his father that the Messenger of Allah said:
"Three will receive their reward twice: A slave who fulfills the rights of Allah and the rights of his owners, then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who has a beautiful slave girl, so he teaches her good manners, then he frees her, then he married her seeking the Face of Allah by that; then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who believed in an earlier Book, then another Book came to him and he believed in it; then he will be given his reward twice."

Salaam Alaikum.

Do you believe this applies to Christians and Jews today, or during Muhammad's time only?

Also, what does the term "believe in" the earlier Book and "believe in" another Book mean? I would assume that means reading it and believing in what it says, am I right?
 
Wa Alaikkum,
 
This applies to all Jews and Christians who follow the Muhammadan Covenent since Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was chosen as the final messenger to mankind.
 
No, you are wrong. It means (to my understanding) that if one who is a Jew or a Christian believe that the Torah was given to Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and the Injil was given to Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) and followed their example in believing that there is only One God, prayed to this One God and gave charity and fasted, believing in His angels, pre-destination etc and then believing in the final revelation that is the Holy Qur'an.
 
Further, a Christian who used to believe in the Trinity and prayed to Isa Ibna Maryam (Alayhi Salaam) and abandoned that belief system and embraced Islam (submitted himself wholly to the One God) and believe in what Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) brought.
 
Ever since the final revelation was given, one must believe in it to achieve salvation.
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786SalamKhan
 
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Quote 786SalamKhan Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2013 at 5:29am
There are also verses similar to this in the Quran but it only applies to the (Unitarian)Christians before Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and the Jews before Prophets Zechariah, John and Jesus(PBUT).
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2013 at 5:27am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
Good news for Christians and Jews.
 
Abu Burdah bin Abi Musa narrated from his father that the Messenger of Allah said:
"Three will receive their reward twice: A slave who fulfills the rights of Allah and the rights of his owners, then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who has a beautiful slave girl, so he teaches her good manners, then he frees her, then he married her seeking the Face of Allah by that; then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who believed in an earlier Book, then another Book came to him and he believed in it; then he will be given his reward twice."

Salaam Alaikum.

Do you believe this applies to Christians and Jews today, or during Muhammad's time only?

Also, what does the term "believe in" the earlier Book and "believe in" another Book mean? I would assume that means reading it and believing in what it says, am I right?
 
Wa Alaikkum,
 
This applies to all Jews and Christians who follow the Muhammadan Covenent since Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was chosen as the final messenger to mankind.
 
No, you are wrong. It means (to my understanding) that if one who is a Jew or a Christian believe that the Torah was given to Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and the Injil was given to Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) and followed their example in believing that there is only One God, prayed to this One God and gave charity and fasted, believing in His angels, pre-destination etc and then believing in the final revelation that is the Holy Qur'an.
 
Further, a Christian who used to believe in the Trinity and prayed to Isa Ibna Maryam (Alayhi Salaam) and abandoned that belief system and embraced Islam (submitted himself wholly to the One God) and believe in what Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) brought.
 
Ever since the final revelation was given, one must believe in it to achieve salvation.


Wa Alaykum salaam, Abu Loren. Thank you for your answer. You said that if a Christian believes the Torah was given to Moses and the Injil was given to Jesus and followed their example by believing there is only one God, prayed to Him, have charity and fasted and believed in His angels, predestination and then believed in the Quran, he or she will be saved.

A problem I see with this statement is that aside from the Quran, to the best of my knowledge there is no evidence or even any claim of the existence of a book that was revealed to Jesus. Christians believe that the story of Jesus is found in the Gospels, which were written by people who God inspired and who knew Him or knew those who knew Him. I am unaware of any Christian group, sect or denomination prior to the coming of Muhammad or today for that matter that believes that a book was revealed to Jesus- orthodox or otherwise. I am unaware of any non-Muslim claims that such a book is or ever was in existence.

How could a Christian believe that God sent a book to Jesus prior to him or her believing in the Quran? There is no record outside of the Quran or hadiths of such a book either existing or in anyone believing in the existence of such a book. If I am wrong on that, please show me sources that prove otherwise.

Another problem I see is that, according to the translation at least of the hadith that you posted, the word "believed in" is written both in regards to the Quran and the earlier Book.
If you are arguing that by "believed in" an earlier book it means only that a person believed it was given to Jesus, then there is no reason to assume "believed in" another book (ie the Quran) would not mean only believing in it was given to Muhammad. However, if I am not mistaken believing in the Quran means following what it says.

If we argue that "believed in" means to follow what was in it, that would apply to the Quran well but the problem would be that people in Muhammad's time were following the Injil which

a) there is no proof that I am aware of outside the Quran that such a book exists or ever has existed

and

b) would contradict the claim that many Muslims that Christians are basing their theology on corrupted scriptures.


Lastly, you wrote:

Further, a Christian who used to believe in the Trinity and prayed to Isa Ibna Maryam (Alayhi Salaam) and abandoned that belief system and embraced Islam (submitted himself wholly to the One God) and believe in what Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) brought.

I would fit that category for the underlined part, however the Book that I follow is the Bible and the Gospels in it were not given to Jesus by God but rather are accounts of His teachings and some of the things that He did.


This is an interesting discussion. Looking forward to hearing your views on this.

Salaam.
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2013 at 5:30am
Originally posted by 786SalamKhan

There are also verses similar to this in the Quran but it only applies to the (Unitarian)Christians before Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and the Jews before Prophets Zechariah, John and Jesus(PBUT).


Which verses?

According to Abu Loren it does not apply only  to Unitarian "christians". What proof do you have it only applies to them?

I put the word christians beside Unitarian in brackets because I do not believe they are following the Bible's teachings, like I am sure you do not believe that muslims like the Nation of Islam, Submitters International, Ahmadiyya are following Islam.
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2013 at 12:18am
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan

There are also verses similar to this in the Quran but it only applies to the (Unitarian)Christians before Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and the Jews before Prophets Zechariah, John and Jesus(PBUT).


Which verses?

According to Abu Loren it does not apply only  to Unitarian "christians". What proof do you have it only applies to them?

I put the word christians beside Unitarian in brackets because I do not believe they are following the Bible's teachings, like I am sure you do not believe that muslims like the Nation of Islam, Submitters International, Ahmadiyya are following Islam.
 
You're just over-complicating things. A Jew and a Christian who accepts Islam will receive a double reward.
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2013 at 12:20am
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
Good news for Christians and Jews.
 
Abu Burdah bin Abi Musa narrated from his father that the Messenger of Allah said:
"Three will receive their reward twice: A slave who fulfills the rights of Allah and the rights of his owners, then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who has a beautiful slave girl, so he teaches her good manners, then he frees her, then he married her seeking the Face of Allah by that; then he will be given his reward twice. And a man who believed in an earlier Book, then another Book came to him and he believed in it; then he will be given his reward twice."

Salaam Alaikum.

Do you believe this applies to Christians and Jews today, or during Muhammad's time only?

Also, what does the term "believe in" the earlier Book and "believe in" another Book mean? I would assume that means reading it and believing in what it says, am I right?
 
Wa Alaikkum,
 
This applies to all Jews and Christians who follow the Muhammadan Covenent since Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was chosen as the final messenger to mankind.
 
No, you are wrong. It means (to my understanding) that if one who is a Jew or a Christian believe that the Torah was given to Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and the Injil was given to Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) and followed their example in believing that there is only One God, prayed to this One God and gave charity and fasted, believing in His angels, pre-destination etc and then believing in the final revelation that is the Holy Qur'an.
 
Further, a Christian who used to believe in the Trinity and prayed to Isa Ibna Maryam (Alayhi Salaam) and abandoned that belief system and embraced Islam (submitted himself wholly to the One God) and believe in what Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) brought.
 
Ever since the final revelation was given, one must believe in it to achieve salvation.


Wa Alaykum salaam, Abu Loren. Thank you for your answer. You said that if a Christian believes the Torah was given to Moses and the Injil was given to Jesus and followed their example by believing there is only one God, prayed to Him, have charity and fasted and believed in His angels, predestination and then believed in the Quran, he or she will be saved.

A problem I see with this statement is that aside from the Quran, to the best of my knowledge there is no evidence or even any claim of the existence of a book that was revealed to Jesus. Christians believe that the story of Jesus is found in the Gospels, which were written by people who God inspired and who knew Him or knew those who knew Him. I am unaware of any Christian group, sect or denomination prior to the coming of Muhammad or today for that matter that believes that a book was revealed to Jesus- orthodox or otherwise. I am unaware of any non-Muslim claims that such a book is or ever was in existence.

How could a Christian believe that God sent a book to Jesus prior to him or her believing in the Quran? There is no record outside of the Quran or hadiths of such a book either existing or in anyone believing in the existence of such a book. If I am wrong on that, please show me sources that prove otherwise.

Another problem I see is that, according to the translation at least of the hadith that you posted, the word "believed in" is written both in regards to the Quran and the earlier Book.
If you are arguing that by "believed in" an earlier book it means only that a person believed it was given to Jesus, then there is no reason to assume "believed in" another book (ie the Quran) would not mean only believing in it was given to Muhammad. However, if I am not mistaken believing in the Quran means following what it says.

If we argue that "believed in" means to follow what was in it, that would apply to the Quran well but the problem would be that people in Muhammad's time were following the Injil which

a) there is no proof that I am aware of outside the Quran that such a book exists or ever has existed

and

b) would contradict the claim that many Muslims that Christians are basing their theology on corrupted scriptures.


Lastly, you wrote:

Further, a Christian who used to believe in the Trinity and prayed to Isa Ibna Maryam (Alayhi Salaam) and abandoned that belief system and embraced Islam (submitted himself wholly to the One God) and believe in what Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) brought.

I would fit that category for the underlined part, however the Book that I follow is the Bible and the Gospels in it were not given to Jesus by God but rather are accounts of His teachings and some of the things that He did.


This is an interesting discussion. Looking forward to hearing your views on this.

Salaam.
 
Sorry I'm just bored out of my skull with all this dissection. I thought what I've posted was prettey clear.
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