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Message Icon Topic: Do Christians follow any dietary Laws? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:13am
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

NT instructs to follow the OT
OT forbids swine
NT doesn't allow swine

= swine is forbidden in the Bible

Jesus(as) was a
staunch follower of the OT.

Matthew 5:17-19
Luke 16:17

Christians conveniently relying on Matthew 15:11 or Mark 7:15 to eat pig is shameful. You're implying that Jesus(as) eats anything and everything.

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته


Edited by Rational - 04 February 2013 at 4:23am
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by Rational


Jesus(as) was a
staunch follower of the OT.

Greetings Rational,

Actually He wasn't.  He sat down to eat with tax collectors and prostitutes.  He ate without washing, and was accused of doing work on the Lords day when He and the Apostles were picking wheat to eat as they walked in the fields... and also because He healed on the Sabbath.  These are the things He was constantly accused of because actually he flouted the law of the Pharisees.  He was trying to show the foolishness of following empty laws which the heart was not behind.  To show that it was the heart that determined the acceptability of a behavior.

Salaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by honeto

Placid,
I understand that. What seems to be the issue is:
Jesus was a Jew, according to Christians, and Jews follow what God commanded them in the OT. So to say that one is a Jew, but not follow the Jewish law is....?
Hasan
I'm butting in I know, but... WinkIt's not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth ... (these are the words of Jesus) </span><span ="st">The Ethiopic version renders it, "it is not what enters from without into the mouth of man, which can defile him; but only what goes out of the heart of man, this defiles ...</span>http://bible.cc/mark/7-15.htmSalaam,Caringheart


Caringheart,
that is not a command. And the fact is that there were laws that God taught to His people. Moses, David and Jesus (pbut) all followed some laws and rules and told their people to do the same. What you failed to show is a command that cancelled the dietary requirement put in place for those who followed the OT and Jesus was one of them. Of course the heart has to be clean as well, and that was nothing new either. That teaching always was and is a part of being an honest believer. So that quote does not nullify the command to not to eat or touch pork.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 6:01pm
Ahh, shameful is a judgement based on the negative conotations inposed on pork.
There is no implication against Jesus as He was  Jew who would have no idea what pork even tasted like. Let's not forget what Jesus said in 3:50
To add insult to injury Jews were forced to slaughter pigs in the temple by the Greeks. Then RamBam started the rumors that pigs are filthy, wallowing their own feces, will eat anything, and cause diseases. His prediction was that if people started eating pork their homes would become as filthy as pig stys. The big pig freakout.
 
Didn't happen like RamBam said, then again he wasn't a prophet.
 
I've mentioned monkey brains and horses and nobody flinched, but pork...
 
Cute little domesticated pets that they are...(can you imagine).
 
A couple more things to add to the pile; Note both Leviticus 11:7 and 8, then again in Deuteronomy 14:8 says the same thing, "is unclean to you."
Does not say "Is despicabley unclean, wallowing in it's own do do, diseased, etc... Says "Is unclean, to you".
Unclean to the Jews. Remember that there were some things forbidden to the Jews because of their disobiedience? K, nobody has a list of that stuff.
 
What Jesus said; "And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me." (3:50)
We don't have any official "God given" lists either way but if camels and hares came off the list what else did?
Hares do eat their own poop so I'd guess that's not an issue of uncleanliness.  
Perspective...
 
 
 
 
 
We went over the ruling the Jewish Elders of the temple of Jerusalam made for the Gentile dietary law didn't we? At least twice?
 
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2013 at 8:19am
But Caringheart is using Matthew 15:11 and Mark 7:15.

Was Jesus (as) talking about food in those verses? What if he meant 'words' heard and 'words' spoken?

And if Jesus (as) was talking about food, does this mean that he is making everything lawful? Everything is clean?
 
I think it's simple, the OT says don't eat swine. Where does Jesus make swine lawful? Did he ever reverse the law given from the OT? I believe that he did make things lawful that were forbidden, but where did he make swine lawful?



Edited by Rational - 05 February 2013 at 8:21am
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2013 at 2:38pm
Greetings Rational,
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
For me it is very clear what Jesus was saying.
To quit making such a fuss over the transitory things of this world and start paying attention to the deeper issues of the heart.

12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Salaam,

Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 05 February 2013 at 2:41pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2013 at 11:37pm
Words heard come in thru the ears. Words spoken can defile a man so fast...
Legit question, is everything now clean?What ever goes into your stomach goes thru the acid test. Not much survives, think about it. Modern science tells us what's poison, including vegitation which looks like the Israelites were either privy listed, or left to find out on their own.
 
I very well know what an aversion Muslims have to swine. It's not something likely to change either, Muslims will always hate anything associated.
 
I was asked at the beginning of this thread if I eat pork and my answer was yes. Reason being I can't say no if I remember eating it in my past, nor reserved to say it will never happen again, but also mentioned it is not part of my regular diet. If once kafir, always kafir, call me Kafebber, whatever.
 
I know, I churn that aversion, and poke for responses like I'm some big pig eatin advocate, but not so, and please know that I would never encourage a Muslim to go against his laws.
 
I was in a Timmy's with a friend one day, he ordered something with bacon in it. My friend asked the kid making it if he'd ever eaten bacon. The kid, (obviously Muslim) said no but he had heard it was very good. I asked him what he would do after he ate it. We made eye contact, no words, he thought about it, I scared him with what he was thinking. Chances are he'll never try bacon, even if prompted again. I don't know about you but I thank God for using me on such occasions.
 
Did anyone read as far as Deuteronomy 14: 21?
 Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God.
 
Anything that dieth of itself is unclean. Just like pigs and camels.
An Israelite was not allowed to eat it but could give it to a Gentile who lived in the city, or sell it to a Gentile outside of the city.
 
Obviously God did not make these laws for Gentiles or the ruling would have been to bury it, or something more along those lines.
 
This is a bold enough statement to say God never made dietary laws for Gentiles. If He never made them in the first place, you won't find anywhere where He changed them, and no reason to go looking for them.
 
It's about time to drop the gavel on this one.
 
 
BTW, the reason you are allowed to eat hare is because they eat their feces.
Comforting thought.
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 6:35am
Originally posted by Webber

It's about time to drop the gavel on this one.

But if you follow Jesus (as), he never ate pig? Or did he? Tongue Pig


Edited by Rational - 06 February 2013 at 6:40am
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