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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Do Christians follow any dietary Laws? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 2:31pm
Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brassen vessels, and of tables.

Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him[Jesus], Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
    teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

...

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

14 And when He had called all the people unto him, He said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when He was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And He saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?  (*see below)

20 And He said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

These are the words spoken by Jesus.

* NIV version has this note at verse 19
(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Edited by Caringheart - 24 January 2013 at 2:35pm
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 9:44pm
Just wondering when God declared camels and rabbits as clean.
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2013 at 5:23pm
Hi Hasan,

It is interesting how you dwell so much on an OT law that was for the Jews and never did apply to Gentiles even in that day, and apparently a law that Muslims don’t observe either according to the list that Rational gave.

Let’s look at what it says in Deuteronomy 14:
Clean and Unclean Meat
7 Nevertheless, of those that chew the cud or have cloven hooves, you shall not eat, such as these: the (camel), the (rabbit), and the rock hyrax; for they chew the cud but do not have cloven hooves; they are unclean for you.
12 But these you shall not eat: the eagle, the vulture, the buzzard,
15 the (ostrich), the short-eared owl, the (sea gull), and the hawk after their kinds;
18 the (stork), the (heron) after its kind, and the (hoopoe) and the bat.

--- The ones forbidden that are included on Rational’s list are in (brackets).

--- Notice the following instructions for the Jews which violates their rules of not eating or touching anything that dies of itself.
They can give it to Gentiles, --- or SELL it to a foreigner.

21 “You shall not eat anything that dies of itself; you may give it to the alien who is within your gates, that he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner; for you are a holy people to the Lord your God.
--- (How do you like that?)

--- It gives instructions about changes that Jesus brought, in Surah 3:
48 "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49 And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
50 (I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
"'It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"

Notice: --- I declare to you what you eat.
And what you store in your houses.
To make lawful for you part of what was before forbidden
I have come with a Sign from your Lord.
So fear (worship) God and OBEY ME.
God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him.
This is a Way that is straight.

This is what Christians do. We follow and obey Jesus, and worship God.
--- Didn’t Caringheart give you this Scripture?
“There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him:”

Jesus lifted any restrictions on particular foods, because Jesus said, --- “Life is more than food and clothing.”
One last thing on food and a commandment concerning it.

--- If Jesus said, “I have changed the rules concerning ‘what you eat and what you store in your houses.’” --- Don’t you think He would tell His brother James, who was the Leader and Pastor of the Church in Jerusalem, when they decided the rules for the Gentile Church in Antioch, Syria?

They sent this letter from James and the elders in Acts 15:
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:
29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

However, this is the kind of commandments that Jesus gave in John 13:
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”


Placid

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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2013 at 4:25am
Hi Hasan,

I should have added that I respect the instructions given in the Quran that Muslims should not eat pork.

--- But this is a rule that you follow, --- so for you to eat pork or ham would be wrong, except in the case of necessity as it says.

But you understand, since it was never forbidden for Gentiles and Christians to eat pork, it is a non issue.

I don't know why they call that 'fast food' item a HAM-burger, because they are not made with ham.

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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 12:27am
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Hasan,

I should have added that I respect the instructions given in the Quran that Muslims should not eat pork.

--- But this is a rule that you follow, --- so for you to eat pork or ham would be wrong, except in the case of necessity as it says.

But you understand, since it was never forbidden for Gentiles and Christians to eat pork, it is a non issue.

I don't know why they call that 'fast food' item a HAM-burger, because they are not made with ham.



I just wanted to add that I also respect the dietary laws that are followed by the Jewish and muslim faiths.

I thought it was right when we used to fast from meat on Fridays and Sundays during lent in my faith.  I try to still observe this practice during lent, and truthfully would like to observe this on every Friday all through the year as an observance of the sabbath, but admit I am terrible in my discipline in this matter.  I tend to forget, and eat whatever is easy, without considering the day.  I also wish I could master the discipline for fasting.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Hasan,

I should have added that I respect the instructions given in the Quran that Muslims should not eat pork.

--- But this is a rule that you follow, --- so for you to eat pork or ham would be wrong, except in the case of necessity as it says.

But you understand, since it was never forbidden for Gentiles and Christians to eat pork, it is a non issue.

I don't know why they call that 'fast food' item a HAM-burger, because they are not made with ham.



Placid,
I understand that. What seems to be the issue is:
Jesus was a Jew, according to Christians, and Jews follow what God commanded them in the OT. So to say that one is a Jew, but not follow the Jewish law is....?

As far as hamburger, their are several stories, one is that it originated in a town called Hamburg!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by honeto


Placid,
I understand that. What seems to be the issue is:
Jesus was a Jew, according to Christians, and Jews follow what God commanded them in the OT. So to say that one is a Jew, but not follow the Jewish law is....?
Hasan


I'm butting in I know, but... Wink

Yes, Jesus was a Jew and it was Jesus Himself who was teaching that people should not be so focused on what goes into the stomach
'for it is not what goes into a man that counts,
but what comes out of the heart'

It's not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth ... (these are the words of Jesus)

The Ethiopic version renders it, "it is not what enters from without into the mouth of man, which can defile him; but only what goes out of the heart of man, this defiles ...

http://bible.cc/mark/7-15.htm

Salaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 7:06pm
Salaam,
 
Christians conveniently quote Matthew 15:11
 

Matthew 15:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

However, nowhere in the NT would you find Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) making halal what was made haram.
I suspect what happened was that the early Christians knew that the gentiles that they reached out to would not keep the dietery laws of the OT because they would find that almost impossible to follow, so they got rid of it. Simple.
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