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Message Icon Topic: Do Christians follow any dietary Laws? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 13 January 2013 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by honeto

Can you show me a command where the dietary laws of the OT were changed by God?
Hasan


Gretings Hasan,

I am not sure why you addressed me but I am happy to answer.

Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brassen vessels, and of tables.

Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him[Jesus], Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
    teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

...

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

14 And when He had called all the people unto him, He said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when He was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And He saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?  (*see below)

20 And He said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

These are the words spoken by Jesus.

* NIV version has this note at verse 19
(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Wishing you well,
CH



Edited by Caringheart - 13 January 2013 at 5:16pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 13 January 2013 at 8:41pm
I may have shared this earlier in the thread, but not so long ago I was listening to a teaching that talked about how the law was given by God, to Moses, to forbid the eating of pork, to ensure that the Israelites would be prevented from returning to Egypt as some were tempted to do.  The teaching was that pork was a large part of the Egyptian diet and so by forbidding this the Israelites would have no choice but to not return.  I did not do further research into the matter since it made a great deal of sense to me.

As we have become better able to travel around the world I think it is clear that people must eat what they are provided with to eat according to where they live.... that or starve.


Edited by Caringheart - 13 January 2013 at 8:46pm
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 14 January 2013 at 8:51am
Hi Rational,

Quote: Who are Christian Gentiles and why doesn't Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 apply to them regarding swine?

Christian Gentiles are those who followed Jesus as the Gospel was spread outside of Israel’. --- The Jews first called the followers of Jesus. ‘the Way,’ or ‘that Way,’ which was kind of spoken as an insult.

However, as the Christian Church and community grew in Antioch, Syria, it says in Acts 11:
25 Then Barnabas departed for Tarsus to seek Saul.
26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

The dietary laws in Lev 11 and Deut 14 are generally followed by many Christians, but they are no longer a law because the NT was not founded on rules and laws, but on grace and truth, which comes by Faith in God, as it says in John 1:
17 “For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” --- And Faith in God, through Jesus Christ, requires willing obedience.

What was given to the Gentile Christians at Antiock is listed in Acts 15:
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:
29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

This is comparable to the first part of Surah 5:
3 Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat (that which dies of itself), blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than God; that which hath been killed by strangling,
--- (Like I said above, the only restriction added for Muslims was swine, or pork.)


Placid

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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Caringheart




Originally posted by honeto

Can you show me a command where the dietary laws of the OT were changed by God?
Hasan
Gretings Hasan,I am not sure why you addressed me but I am happy to answer.
<p ="chapter-1"=""><span id="en-KJV-24465" ="text="" mark-7-1"=""><span ="chapternum"=""></span>Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24466" ="text="" mark-7-2"=""><sup ="versenum"="">2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24467" ="text="" mark-7-3"=""><sup ="versenum"="">3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24468" ="text="" mark-7-4"=""><sup ="versenum"="">4 And
when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And
many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the
washing of cups, and pots, brassen vessels, and of tables.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24469" ="text="" mark-7-5"=""><sup ="versenum"="">5 Then
the Pharisees and scribes asked Him[Jesus], Why walk not thy disciples
according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen
hands?</span>

<span id="en-NIV-24470" ="text="" mark-7-6"=""><sup ="versenum"="">6 He replied, <span ="woj"="">“Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:</span></span>

<span ="text="" mark-7-6"=""><span ="woj"="">“‘These people honor me with their lips,</span></span><span ="indent-1"=""><span ="indent-1-breaks"="">    </span><span ="text="" mark-7-6"=""><span ="woj"="">but their hearts are far from me.</span></span></span><span id="en-NIV-24471" ="text="" mark-7-7"=""><span ="woj"=""><sup ="versenum"="">7 </span></span><span ="indent-1"=""><span ="indent-1-breaks"=""></span><span ="text="" mark-7-7"=""><span ="woj"=""></span></span></span><span id="en-KJV-24471" ="text="" mark-7-7"="">Howbeit in vain do they worship me, </span><span id="en-KJV-24471" ="text="" mark-7-7"="">    teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24472" ="text="" mark-7-8"=""><sup ="versenum"="">8 For
laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as
the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24473" ="text="" mark-7-9"=""><sup ="versenum"="">9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.</span>

...

<span id="en-KJV-24477" ="text="" mark-7-13"=""><sup ="versenum"="">13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24478" ="text="" mark-7-14"=""><sup ="versenum"="">14 And when He had called all the people unto him, He said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24479" ="text="" mark-7-15"=""><sup ="versenum"="">15 There
is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him:
but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the
man.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24480" ="text="" mark-7-16"=""><sup ="versenum"="">16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24481" ="text="" mark-7-17"=""><sup ="versenum"="">17 And when He was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24482" ="text="" mark-7-18"=""><sup ="versenum"="">18 And He saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not
perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it
cannot defile him;</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24483" ="text="" mark-7-19"=""><sup ="versenum"="">19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?  (*see below)</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24484" ="text="" mark-7-20"=""><sup ="versenum"="">20 And He said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24485" ="text="" mark-7-21"=""><sup ="versenum"="">21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24486" ="text="" mark-7-22"=""><sup ="versenum"="">22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24487" ="text="" mark-7-23"=""><sup ="versenum"="">23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.</span>

These are the words spoken by Jesus.* NIV version has this note at verse 19<span id="en-NIV-24483" ="text="" mark-7-19"="">(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)</span>Wishing you well,CH



Caringheart,
I have asked for a command. All this blah blah does not show any commands. God commanded before that "thou shall not eat meat of swine". That's called a command. When God tells us to do something or not to do something, he sends a commands. Where is the command, "thou shall now eat of all that was declared unclean to you before"! where did God say that?
I can find many similar obscure messages like you quoted and their possible interpretation that will be as ridiculous as yours. But I would not do that, I want you to show me a command where God commands you to free yourself from dietary laws He has in place before.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 16 January 2013 at 3:39pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Caringheart


In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)</span>Wishing you well,CH


Caringheart,
I have asked for a command. All this blah blah does not show any commands. God commanded before that "thou shall not eat meat of swine". That's called a command. When God tells us to do something or not to do something, he sends a commands. Where is the command, "thou shall now eat of all that was declared unclean to you before"! where did God say that?
I can find many similar obscure messages like you quoted and their possible interpretation that will be as ridiculous as yours. But I would not do that, I want you to show me a command where God commands you to free yourself from dietary laws He has in place before.
Hasan


Why in tarnation would God need to give a command like you are asking for.  You give a command when you are prohibiting something, not when you are giving permission.

I guess, "blah, blah, blah", means you didn't even read, so why did I bother to take my time to share?

Did you read my other post about why God forbid pork to the Jews in the first place?



Edited by Caringheart - 16 January 2013 at 4:17pm
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 6:40pm
'Why in tarnation would God need to give a command like you are asking for. You give a command when you are prohibiting something, not when you are giving permission.'

Hello Caringheart,

Off hand I can give you one such example in our religion.

There is a hadith which says, earlier I forbade you from visiting graves, but now you can - so when you visit, remember your death (I don't remember the exact words though).

I think Hasan was asking you for something similar.

The do's need to be clearly underlined, like the dont's.

Don't you think so?
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

'Why in tarnation would God need to give a command like you are asking for. You give a command when you are prohibiting something, not when you are giving permission.'

Hello Caringheart,

Off hand I can give you one such example in our religion.

There is a hadith which says, earlier I forbade you from visiting graves, but now you can - so when you visit, remember your death (I don't remember the exact words though).

I think Hasan was asking you for something similar.

The do's need to be clearly underlined, like the dont's.

Don't you think so?


Thanks Nausheen for the illustration, however, this is hadith, not quran, and we are meant to be using scripture.

I believe the Biblical scripture is very clear about the permission being given.
Hasan does not agree.
As far as I am concerned, you don't say, 'I command you to eat whatever you want'... you say, 'I give permission to eat as you will'.

Anyway, your hadith does the same... it does not command... 'I command you to visit graves'... it gives permission.  So essentially you and I have said the same thing.  (Sorry if I came off sounding testy.)

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 16 January 2013 at 6:59pm
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2013 at 4:59am
Christians just can't bring themselves to admit that Paul the deceiver changed the dietery law which was implemented in the OT. Christians give the lame excuse of a quote from Jesus, which is misundersood, that to paraphrase it 'it's not what goes in your mouth that is important but what comes out'.
 
There's no getting away from the fact that as they wanted the gentiles to follow the teachings of Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) that they had to to compromise on the dietery law otherwise no gentile would have become a Christian. Simple.
 
I don't think the question has been answered yet.
 
Do Christians follow any dietary Laws?
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