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semar
 
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Quote semar Replybullet Topic: Pope: Jesus was born years earlier than thought
    Posted: 18 December 2012 at 9:14am
Jesus was born years earlier than thought, claims Pope
The entire Christian calendar is based on a miscalculation, the Pope has declared, as he claims in a new book that Jesus was born several years earlier than commonly believed.
 
 

By Nick Squires, Rome 21 Nov 2012

The 'mistake' was made by a sixth century monk known as Dionysius Exiguus or in English Dennis the Small, the 85-year-old pontiff claims in the book 'Jesus of Nazareth: The Infancy Narratives', published on Wednesday.

"The calculation of the beginning of our calendar – based on the birth of Jesus – was made by Dionysius Exiguus, who made a mistake in his calculations by several years," the Pope writes in the book, which went on sale around the world with an initial print run of a million copies.

"The actual date of Jesus's birth was several years before."

The assertion that the Christian calendar is based on a false premise is not new – many historians believe that Christ was born sometime between 7BC and 2BC.

But the fact that doubts over one of the keystones of Christian tradition have been raised by the leader of the world's one billion Catholics is striking.

Dennis the Small, who was born in Eastern Europe, is credited with being the "inventor" of the modern calendar and the concept of the Anno Domini era.

He drew up the new system in part to distance it from the calendar in use at the time, which was based on the years since the reign of the Roman emperor Diocletian.

The emperor had persecuted Christians, so there was good reason to expunge him from the new dating system in favour of one inspired by the birth of Christ.

The monk's calendar became widely accepted in Europe after it was adopted by the Venerable Bede, the historian-monk, to date the events that he recounted in his Ecclesiastical History of the English People, which he completed in AD 731.

But exactly how Dennis calculated the year of Christ's birth is not clear and the Pope's claim that he made a mistake is a view shared by many scholars.

The Bible does not specify a date for the birth of Christ. The monk instead appears to have based his calculations on vague references to Jesus's age at the start of his ministry and the fact that he was baptised in the reign of the emperor Tiberius.

Christ's birth date is not the only controversy raised by the Pope in his new book – he also said that contrary to the traditional Nativity scene, there were no oxen, donkeys or other animals at Jesus's birth.

He also weighs in on the debate over Christ's birthplace, rejecting arguments by some scholars that he was born in Nazareth rather than Bethlehem.

John Barton, Professor of the Interpretation of the Holy Scripture at Oriel College, Oxford University, said most academics agreed with the Pope that the Christian calendar was wrong and that Jesus was born several years earlier than commonly thought, probably between 6BC and 4BC.

"There is no reference to when he was born in the Bible - all we know is that he was born in the reign of Herod the Great, who died before 1AD," he told The Daily Telegraph. "It's been surmised for a very long time that Jesus was born before 1AD - no one knows for sure."

The idea that Christ was born on Dec 25 also has no basis in historical fact. "We don't even know which season he was born in. The whole idea of celebrating his birth during the darkest part of the year is probably linked to pagan traditions and the winter solstice."

Salam/Peace,
Semar
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Quote Salaam_Erin Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2012 at 9:43am
Nothing new here.  I've known this since I was a kid.  Dionysius Exiguus' error comes from two mistakes.  He wrongly assumes Jesus was born and Herod the Great died in the same year, when in reality Jesus was 2 years old when Herod died.  (Check out Matthew's account of the Wise Men visiting Herod.)  His second error was that he forgot that the Emperor Augustus' sole rule of the Roman Empire began four years before he became the first Emperor, as lone Triumvir (Dux).  (He defeated Antony and Cleopatra at the Battle of Actium in 31 BC and became Emperor on 13th January 27 BC.) 

As for the time of year of Jesus' birth, a hint is in John's Gospel chapter 1 where it says that Jesus made His skenos amongst us- the same term is used of a Sukkoth booth in Greek for the Feast of Tabernacles.  
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2012 at 9:43am
Originally posted by semar

Jesus was born years earlier than thought, claims Pope
The entire Christian calendar is based on a miscalculation, the Pope has declared, as he claims in a new book that Jesus was born several years earlier than commonly believed.
 
 

By Nick Squires, Rome 21 Nov 2012

The 'mistake' was made by a sixth century monk known as Dionysius Exiguus or in English Dennis the Small, the 85-year-old pontiff claims in the book 'Jesus of Nazareth: The Infancy Narratives', published on Wednesday.

"The calculation of the beginning of our calendar – based on the birth of Jesus – was made by Dionysius Exiguus, who made a mistake in his calculations by several years," the Pope writes in the book, which went on sale around the world with an initial print run of a million copies.

"The actual date of Jesus's birth was several years before."

The assertion that the Christian calendar is based on a false premise is not new – many historians believe that Christ was born sometime between 7BC and 2BC.

But the fact that doubts over one of the keystones of Christian tradition have been raised by the leader of the world's one billion Catholics is striking.

Dennis the Small, who was born in Eastern Europe, is credited with being the "inventor" of the modern calendar and the concept of the Anno Domini era.

He drew up the new system in part to distance it from the calendar in use at the time, which was based on the years since the reign of the Roman emperor Diocletian.

The emperor had persecuted Christians, so there was good reason to expunge him from the new dating system in favour of one inspired by the birth of Christ.

The monk's calendar became widely accepted in Europe after it was adopted by the Venerable Bede, the historian-monk, to date the events that he recounted in his Ecclesiastical History of the English People, which he completed in AD 731.

But exactly how Dennis calculated the year of Christ's birth is not clear and the Pope's claim that he made a mistake is a view shared by many scholars.

The Bible does not specify a date for the birth of Christ. The monk instead appears to have based his calculations on vague references to Jesus's age at the start of his ministry and the fact that he was baptised in the reign of the emperor Tiberius.

Christ's birth date is not the only controversy raised by the Pope in his new book – he also said that contrary to the traditional Nativity scene, there were no oxen, donkeys or other animals at Jesus's birth.

He also weighs in on the debate over Christ's birthplace, rejecting arguments by some scholars that he was born in Nazareth rather than Bethlehem.

John Barton, Professor of the Interpretation of the Holy Scripture at Oriel College, Oxford University, said most academics agreed with the Pope that the Christian calendar was wrong and that Jesus was born several years earlier than commonly thought, probably between 6BC and 4BC.

"There is no reference to when he was born in the Bible - all we know is that he was born in the reign of Herod the Great, who died before 1AD," he told The Daily Telegraph. "It's been surmised for a very long time that Jesus was born before 1AD - no one knows for sure."

The idea that Christ was born on Dec 25 also has no basis in historical fact. "We don't even know which season he was born in. The whole idea of celebrating his birth during the darkest part of the year is probably linked to pagan traditions and the winter solstice."

Thanks for posting, semar! Very interesting! As a Christian I go by what the Bible says, so none of this is challenging to my faith. A good read, though! Thank you!
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2012 at 9:54am
This is nothing new, we all know this already ;P
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:09pm
In a Bible I have that gives dates on each page, --- it dates the Birth of Jesus in 4 BC.

So, you are right, it is nothing new.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:37pm
This issue might be not as important as some other ones, but how interesting that not only the year of his birth, but also the date has been modified.
And coming to the more important issues we still have anything but a clear answer to how Jesus can be God, and how salvation comes through his blood shed?
No one seems to have prove to those claims from a reliable source.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 18 December 2012 at 1:39pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2012 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by honeto

This issue might be not as important as some other ones, but how interesting that not only the year of his birth, but also the date has been modified.
And coming to the more important issues we still have anything but a clear answer to how Jesus can be God, and how salvation comes through his blood shed?
No one seems to have prove to those claims from a reliable source.
Hasan

Salaam Alaikum, Hassan.

The Bible says Jesus is God.

John 1:1-18

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea]">[a] it.

There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God andb]">[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


The Bible also says that He died for our sins.

1 Peter 3:18

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.


God bless you!Smile
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