TG12345,
you said above:
"You aren't a Christian either and don't believe the Bible is God's word, yet in our debate you have argued Mark 10:18 states Jesus is not God... although the vast majority of Christians and Biblical scholars will tell you that in the passage Jesus is affirming, not denying His divinity. I don't tell you it is not your place to tell Christians how to interpret the Bible.

Having said this, if Islam is based on what is in the Quran and hadith, the fact remains that neither explicitly says that Adam was a prophet. Whether or not Muslims unanimously believe he was or wasn't doesn't change this fact."


Dear TG12345,
I know many Muslims who were Christians like you in my very close circle who say they never thought of Jesus as God even when they were Christians. Also do not forget that it is the same Bible that quotes Jesus saying he has a God when he said " to my father and your father, to my God and your God" or that "my father is greater than I" while ya'll try to impose that he and God are equal.

As far as the matter of whether Adam was given revelation, i.e. if he was also a messenger the answer is in both the Quran and the Bible.
We must first understand what is the purpose of prophets and messengers was? The purpose was to bring knowledge and guidance so people can distinguish between right and wrong, permissible and forbidden. This is what all the prophets or messengers did.
Let us see if Adam, according to the scriptures qualifies.
There are several places where we can find proof that Adam was indeed given guidance by God as well commandments to stay away from certain thing(s). Here in this example Hosea 6 gives us some proof.
(this is for those who believe in the Bible, and do not believe Muslim sources).
Please read: Hosea6:7 "But they like Adam have transgressed the covenant": This statement clearly states that Adam has a covenant with God, like Moses and other prophets did.
If you think about the whole matter of Adam being taken out of heaven, it is a proof in itself that that could have only happen after God has given him the rules, which we believe He did, and Adam broke that rule. So just in that is the proof that Adam received guidance from God. And that guidance was the word of God, thus he was the first prophet.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 02 January 2013 at 3:50pm

Salaam Alaikum, honeto.

To answer your first point, though you may know some ex-Christians who didn't believe Jesus was God, that doesn't change the fact that this is what most Christians (and who are true to the Christian faith) believe and it also doesn't change the fact that the Bible says He is God.

When my wife lived overseas, she stayed in a host family whose dad was Muslim and despite of this he ate pork chops, drank alcohol and wouldn't pray or go to the mosque. A Muslim organization in my country is a loud supporter of "gay rights" and has people reinterpreting the Quran to challenge passages that make it clear homosexuality is a sin. And as I am sure you will point out, there are also some Christians who do this with the Bible.

http://www.muslimunion.ca/20070621.html

The point is don't make a judgement about a religion based on fringes... this applies to both violent fundamentalists and the "extreme liberals". Both our faiths have people like that.

That some Muslims drink alcohol doesn't mean the Quran says it is ok, and because some Christians deny Jesus is God does not mean they are in agreement with the Bible.

While on earth, Jesus made Himself inferior to the Father. If you had checked out my response to your statement on the link below you would have seen the relevant passage. I am pasting it again.
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24482&PN=2

Philippians 2:5-11

⁵ In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

⁹ Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
¹⁰ that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
¹¹ and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

While on earth, Jesus chose to make Himself inferior to the Father, although He was in nature God as well. That is why He said the Father is greater than Him and why He called Him His God.

Islamispeace showed me a hadith that teaches Muslims believe Adam was a prophet. The Bible states Adam had a covenant with God, but this does not make him a prophet. God made once a covenant with the entire nation of Israel... does this mean they were all prophets? Of course not.

I understand that Islam teaches Adam was a prophet. Christianity does not teach this. We believe he was the first human being created, who messed up, and despite this God still provided for him and loved him. The story of Adam to us does not show how good he was, but rather how loving and merciful God is.

Blessed be His Name.




That's nice, but it doesn't change the fact that in regards to Mark 10 you weren't.

Fair enough.

Rashad Khalifa is one "Muslim" who would disagree with you that the hadiths are a part of Islam. Isrshad Manji is another "Muslim" who would disagree... with both of us... that homosexuality is a sin.

Let's examine what each faith really teaches and not use theologies that most Christians and most Muslims reject. 

  

I see what you meant. I thought you were getting upset with me challenging Muslim views on your faith while you are comfortable challenging Christian views on our faith.

We believe Jesus is God because He is. A majority of Muslims if not all falsely believe Jesus was not God, and that Muhammad was His "messenger". 

Because before you showed me that hadith, the other evidence did not explicitly say he was a prophet. Now I concede that the hadiths do teach that he was one. 

It didn't. However, the last hadith you mentioned did.

Fair enough.

My counter-evidence was the lack of proof from the Quran or hadiths that he was one. Then you presented a hadith that states he was. For that I thank you.  

I disagree. It is clear now though that Islam teaches he was a prophet.