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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2012 at 7:26pm
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by islamispeace

The hadith states that Noah (pbuh) was the first messenger (rasul), not the first prophet (nabi).  That implies that Adam (pbuh), who was not a rasul, was a nabi.




How does it imply that Adam was the first prophet? The word "prophet" is used only twice, both times in reference to Muhammad.

The people's speech to Adam includes nothing of him being a prophet, not even teaching anything for that matter.

' They will go to him and say: 'O Adam! You are the father of all mankind, and Allah created you with His Own Hands, and ordered the angels to prostrate for you, and made you live in Paradise. Will you not intercede for us with your Lord? Don't you see in what (miserable) state we are, and to what condition we have reached?'


Not trying to be rude, but do you see anything here about him being a prophet? They only interceded to him because he was created by God first and that allegedly He made angels prostrate towards him.


"Narrated Abu Huraira: We were in the company of the Prophet at a banquet and a cooked (mutton) forearm was set before him, and he used to like it. He ate a morsel of it and said, "I will be the chief of all the people on the Day of Resurrection. Do you know how Allah will gather all the first and the last (people) in one level place where an observer will be able to see (all) of them and they will be able to hear the announcer, and the sun will come near to them. Some People will say: Don't you see, in what condition you are and the state to which you have reached? Why don't you look for a person who can intercede for you with your Lord? Some people will say: Appeal to your father, Adam.' They will go to him and say: 'O Adam! You are the father of all mankind, and Allah created you with His Own Hands, and ordered the angels to prostrate for you, and made you live in Paradise. Will you not intercede for us with your Lord? Don't you see in what (miserable) state we are, and to what condition we have reached?' On that Adam will reply, 'My Lord is so angry as He has never been before and will never be in the future; (besides), He forbade me (to eat from) the tree, but I disobeyed (Him), (I am worried about) myself! Myself! Go to somebody else; go to Noah.' They will go to Noah and say; 'O Noah! You are the first amongst the messengers of Allah to the people of the earth, and Allah named you a thankful slave. Don't you see in what a (miserable) state we are and to what condition we have reached? Will you not intercede for us with your Lord? Noah will reply: 'Today my Lord has become so angry as he had never been before and will never be in the future Myself! Myself! Go to the Prophet (Muhammad). The people will come to me, and I will prostrate myself underneath Allah's Throne. Then I will be addressed: 'O Muhammad! Raise your head; intercede, for your intercession will be accepted, and ask (for anything). for you will be given."  (Book #55, Hadith #556)


So far, there is nothing in the Quran or hadith that you have shown me anyways, that states Adam was a prophet, or even suggests that to be the case.


On what basis do you believe he was?


First of all, I have already established from the Quran that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet.  You already admitted as such.  Second, I already explained why the hadith implies that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet.  It refers to Noah (pbuh) as the "first messenger" (rasul).  A rasul is also a nabi (prophet), but a nabi is not necessarily a rasul.  The hadith does not refer to Noah (pbuh) as the first "prophet", but as the first "messenger".  That implies that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet, and hence, the first prophet.  If the hadith had said that Noah (pbuh) was the first "prophet", then it would not make sense to refer to Adam as the first prophet, but that is not what it says.  Therefore, Adam (pbuh) was the first prophet but Noah (pbuh) was the first messenger. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2012 at 1:55am
Assalam alaikom warahmato Allahi wabaraqatoh

This is an addition to what has already been presented by other muslims in this thread.

First we need to agree on the definition of the the term “Prophet”, because we’ll end up going in circles otherwise. This wiki page gives a good definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_in_Islam

Based on this definition and the events and circumstances that we know with regards to Adam (pbuh), he is a prophet.
 
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The learned are heirs of the prophets, and the prophets do not leave any inheritance in the form of (monetary wealth), but they do leave knowledge as their legacy. A person who acquires knowledge, acquires his full share (of this legacy)."
--------- Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Number 1388

** To muslim brothers and sisters, please make a post if the above hadith is weak (no considered authentic by most)

Adam being the first man, having direct communication with Allah (azza wa jall) and leaving a wealth of lessons for us to learn from his experiences, I believe he is a prophet.

During Isra and Mi'raj, Mohammad (pbuh) and Gabriel (as) met with Adam (pbuh) in the first heaven. Then they met other prophets in the following heavens. The fact that Adam (pbuh) was in the first heaven followed by other prophets, clearly demonstrates his status amongst Allah's prophets.

His status merits him to be a prophet beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

Edited by Rational - 28 December 2012 at 2:03am
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2012 at 6:20am
Originally posted by islamispeace

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by islamispeace

The hadith states that Noah (pbuh) was the first messenger (rasul), not the first prophet (nabi).  That implies that Adam (pbuh), who was not a rasul, was a nabi.




How does it imply that Adam was the first prophet? The word "prophet" is used only twice, both times in reference to Muhammad.

The people's speech to Adam includes nothing of him being a prophet, not even teaching anything for that matter.

' They will go to him and say: 'O Adam! You are the father of all mankind, and Allah created you with His Own Hands, and ordered the angels to prostrate for you, and made you live in Paradise. Will you not intercede for us with your Lord? Don't you see in what (miserable) state we are, and to what condition we have reached?'


Not trying to be rude, but do you see anything here about him being a prophet? They only interceded to him because he was created by God first and that allegedly He made angels prostrate towards him.


"Narrated Abu Huraira: We were in the company of the Prophet at a banquet and a cooked (mutton) forearm was set before him, and he used to like it. He ate a morsel of it and said, "I will be the chief of all the people on the Day of Resurrection. Do you know how Allah will gather all the first and the last (people) in one level place where an observer will be able to see (all) of them and they will be able to hear the announcer, and the sun will come near to them. Some People will say: Don't you see, in what condition you are and the state to which you have reached? Why don't you look for a person who can intercede for you with your Lord? Some people will say: Appeal to your father, Adam.' They will go to him and say: 'O Adam! You are the father of all mankind, and Allah created you with His Own Hands, and ordered the angels to prostrate for you, and made you live in Paradise. Will you not intercede for us with your Lord? Don't you see in what (miserable) state we are, and to what condition we have reached?' On that Adam will reply, 'My Lord is so angry as He has never been before and will never be in the future; (besides), He forbade me (to eat from) the tree, but I disobeyed (Him), (I am worried about) myself! Myself! Go to somebody else; go to Noah.' They will go to Noah and say; 'O Noah! You are the first amongst the messengers of Allah to the people of the earth, and Allah named you a thankful slave. Don't you see in what a (miserable) state we are and to what condition we have reached? Will you not intercede for us with your Lord? Noah will reply: 'Today my Lord has become so angry as he had never been before and will never be in the future Myself! Myself! Go to the Prophet (Muhammad). The people will come to me, and I will prostrate myself underneath Allah's Throne. Then I will be addressed: 'O Muhammad! Raise your head; intercede, for your intercession will be accepted, and ask (for anything). for you will be given."  (Book #55, Hadith #556)


So far, there is nothing in the Quran or hadith that you have shown me anyways, that states Adam was a prophet, or even suggests that to be the case.


On what basis do you believe he was?


First of all, I have already established from the Quran that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet.  You already admitted as such.  Second, I already explained why the hadith implies that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet.  It refers to Noah (pbuh) as the "first messenger" (rasul).  A rasul is also a nabi (prophet), but a nabi is not necessarily a rasul.  The hadith does not refer to Noah (pbuh) as the first "prophet", but as the first "messenger".  That implies that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet, and hence, the first prophet.  If the hadith had said that Noah (pbuh) was the first "prophet", then it would not make sense to refer to Adam as the first prophet, but that is not what it says.  Therefore, Adam (pbuh) was the first prophet but Noah (pbuh) was the first messenger. 

Salaam Alaikum, islamispeace.

I admitted that 3:33 means Adam is a prophet because I read Ibn Jalalayn's commentary of it:

Lo! God preferred, He has chosen, Adam and Noah and the House of Abraham and the House of ‘Imrān, meaning [He preferred] their selves [sc. Abraham and ‘Imrān], above the worlds, by making prophethood reside in [them and] their progeny:

Without the commentary, the Quran does not say or imply Adam is a prophet. The verse you gave says God chose him and the family of Abraham and the family of Imran above all people. This does not say He even gave Adam guidance in anything, much less have him teach others!

Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-" (3:33)

That Noah was the first messenger in the hadith does not mean Adam had to have been the first prophet. For all we know, Noah could have been both the first messenger and the first prophet.

If we take the tafsirs into account, they do say that Adam was a prophet. However, if we are going to assume they are unreliable and it is necessary to rely on "reliable Islamic sources" like the hadith or Quran, the question still stands: where does Islam teach that Adam was a prophet?

Shukran. Smile
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2012 at 11:11am
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by TG12345

Salaam Alaikum, islamispeace.

I admitted that 3:33 means Adam is a prophet because I read Ibn Jalalayn's commentary of it:

Lo! God preferred, He has chosen, Adam and Noah and the House of Abraham and the House of ‘Imrān, meaning [He preferred] their selves [sc. Abraham and ‘Imrān], above the worlds, by making prophethood reside in [them and] their progeny:

Without the commentary, the Quran does not say or imply Adam is a prophet. The verse you gave says God chose him and the family of Abraham and the family of Imran above all people. This does not say He even gave Adam guidance in anything, much less have him teach others!


Walaikum as-salaam.  The commentary is correct since the verse includes Adam (pbuh) in a list with other prophets, such as Noah (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh).  It would not make sense to include Adam in that list if he was not a prophet.

Originally posted by TG12345

That Noah was the first messenger in the hadith does not mean Adam had to have been the first prophet. For all we know, Noah could have been both the first messenger and the first prophet.


But then the hadith would have said that, but didn't.  Noah (pbuh) was referred specifically as the first "messenger" (which also means he was a prophet).  It did not say he was the first "prophet and messenger". 

Originally posted by TG12345

If we take the tafsirs into account, they do say that Adam was a prophet. However, if we are going to assume they are unreliable and it is necessary to rely on "reliable Islamic sources" like the hadith or Quran, the question still stands: where does Islam teach that Adam was a prophet?


Your confusion is your own.  It is highly unlikely that the Tafsir Al-Jalalayn was basing its interpretation of the Israliyyat, given that Jews do not believe that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet, and neither do Christians!  LOL

The Quran and Hadiths are both clear on the issue.  I don't even know why it matters to you whether Islam teaches that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet or not.  You are not even a Muslim! 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2012 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

All glory and honour to Him.

Originally posted by TG12345

Salaam Alaikum, islamispeace.

I admitted that 3:33 means Adam is a prophet because I read Ibn Jalalayn's commentary of it:

Lo! God preferred, He has chosen, Adam and Noah and the House of Abraham and the House of ‘Imrān, meaning [He preferred] their selves [sc. Abraham and ‘Imrān], above the worlds, by making prophethood reside in [them and] their progeny:

Without the commentary, the Quran does not say or imply Adam is a prophet. The verse you gave says God chose him and the family of Abraham and the family of Imran above all people. This does not say He even gave Adam guidance in anything, much less have him teach others!


Originally posted by islamispeace

Walaikum as-salaam.  The commentary is correct since the verse includes Adam (pbuh) in a list with other prophets, such as Noah (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh).  It would not make sense to include Adam in that list if he was not a prophet.

That is an interpretation of yours and perhaps of many other Muslims, but you cannot be 100% sure since neither the Quran or hadith say he is a prophet. He could have been mentioned because he was the first man created.

Originally posted by TG12345

That Noah was the first messenger in the hadith does not mean Adam had to have been the first prophet. For all we know, Noah could have been both the first messenger and the first prophet.


Originally posted by islamispeace

But then the hadith would have said that, but didn't.  Noah (pbuh) was referred specifically as the first "messenger" (which also means he was a prophet).  It did not say he was the first "prophet and messenger".

This hadith also does not say that Adam was the first prophet, or that he was a prophet at all, which is something you are claiming.
 

Originally posted by TG12345

If we take the tafsirs into account, they do say that Adam was a prophet. However, if we are going to assume they are unreliable and it is necessary to rely on "reliable Islamic sources" like the hadith or Quran, the question still stands: where does Islam teach that Adam was a prophet?


Originally posted by islamispeace

Your confusion is your own.  It is highly unlikely that the Tafsir Al-Jalalayn was basing its interpretation of the Israliyyat, given that Jews do not believe that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet, and neither do Christians!  LOL

Neither Jews or Christians believe that Noah's son died in the flood, yet that account found its ways into the tafsir.

Originally posted by islamispeace

The Quran and Hadiths are both clear on the issue.  I don't even know why it matters to you whether Islam teaches that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet or not.  You are not even a Muslim! 

It is just interesting because you are so careful in doing research, which often is good, and tell me I should not assume based on sources that are not the Quran or hadith... yet in spite of the fact they do not say Adam was a prophet, you maintain that he was.
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2012 at 3:28pm
Here is some more evidence from the Quran that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet:

"Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful." (2:37)

The fact that he received revelation from Allah (swt) implies that he was a prophet.
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2012 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Here is some more evidence from the Quran that Adam (pbuh) was a prophet:

"Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful." (2:37)

The fact that he received revelation from Allah (swt) implies that he was a prophet.

Salaam Alaikum islamispeace. Thank you for your response.

Does the Quran or hadith say that only prophets receive words of inspiration from God? Note the word used is "inspiration", not revelation. Is there any evidence of Adam sharing this inspiration with other people, something a prophet would do?


Edited by TG12345 - 30 December 2012 at 6:42pm
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2012 at 7:19pm
Therefore Paul was also a Prophet, at least one of the 124,000.
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