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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: I NEED TRUE BELIEVERS IN JESUS Post Reply Post New Topic
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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2013 at 10:23am
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Originally posted by TG12345

What do you find so complicated?

What you said. You're welcome to explain what you mean in more detail.


Edited by Rational - 11 January 2013 at 1:09pm
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 12 January 2013 at 5:53am
Hi Mahdi,

--- To continue with the miracle works of Mark 16:18 --- “They will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Because Peter was the Apostle most involved in the healing and deliverance ministry, he would want to include God’s power over the works of Satan in the co-authorship of the Gospel according to Mark, --- and that is what deliverance is, --- the power over Satan, the devil, --- and demons, vipers, evil spirits and to set people free to worship God with no demonic influence.

--- The Jews were called ‘a brood of vipers’ first by John the Baptist in Matthew 3:
4 Now John himself was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey.
5 Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him
6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance.”

And when Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees later, He said this in Matthew 12
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart[g] brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

--- And Jesus said again in Matthew 23:
29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

Drinking poison can also refer to false doctrines, or ‘doctrines of devils,’ --- which can poison the mind, --- From which they need deliverance.


Peter laid hands on many people for their healing, and the power of the Holy Spirit worked so mightily through him that unnatural miracles took place, like this that is recorded in Acts 5:
12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, --- that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.

--- And the ministry of healing continues today in Evangelical Churches and homes of believers.


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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 12 January 2013 at 7:44am
Originally posted by Rational

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Originally posted by TG12345

What do you find so complicated?

What you said. You're welcome to explain what you mean in more detail.


Sure.

People can do powerful works in the name of Jesus, but not be His followers. People can do wonderful works also in the name of the devil

Supernatural phenomena is not definite proof of the work of God. Jesus did many great works.

However, the Bible says that Satan can do great works as well. The pagan Roman emperor Vespasian is said to have supernatually healed some people. Perhaps he really did. Perhaps he didn't, or perhaps he lucked out.

I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Satan gave him some supernatural powers to deceive people.

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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 12 January 2013 at 2:03pm
Hi TG,

While there has to be the genuine, before there can be the counterfeit, --- I think you give Satan too much credit for duplicating the works of God, --- and perhaps you don’t give him enough credit for his ingenious methods of deception.

However, there have been some strange cases that are not explained, but Satan is always trying to draw attention away from God and His word.

A couple of possible examples:
Many people in the world are indwelt by demons or evil spirits, as they were in Bible days, and often they express themselves though physical ailments, confusion or depression.
--- If some natural man, or person of influence, claims to be able to pray for healing for someone who is sick, who simply is occupied by a demon, --- Satan can engineer the healing because he has command of the demons.

--- He can find another person who is open to demonic suggestion, or vulnerable through drugs or alcohol, etc. --- and Satan can have the demon come out of the person that somebody is praying for, and go into the new vulnerable person, so that he now is occupied by that demon, --- and the first person is free, --- so therefore he can rejoice that he has been healed, and even glorify the man as a healer.

Another case is that sane sensible men can come under the control of a demon. You have no doubt heard the expression, ‘the demon of alcohol,’ have you not?
--- If a man who has no inner spiritual action drinks too much, he gets sleepy, and the natural thing is for him to ‘sleep it off.’
--- Most of us have known people that, when they drink to a certain point they get foolish and then obnoxious. With the sensible mind dulled by the alcohol, a demon can come in and control him. --- Some go wild and make fools of themselves, and do harm to others. --- When he finally settles down, or is subdued if necessary, --- and again ‘sleeps it off,’ --- he wakes up sick, sober and sorry. --- And when his friends, or the authorities, tell him what he did, he’s apt to say, “I don’t know what got into me last night.” --- Yeah, but we know.


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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 4:56am
Hi Mahdi

To conclude Mark 16:
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

--- I know, you perhaps didn’t ask about this, but this is the evidence that Peter wrote these final verses because he was there with the other disciples and heard the Message and the Great Commission that Jesus gave to Matthew, Peter, John, and the others, whereas, there is no mention of Mark being with them.

Matthew said about the same in chapter 28:
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them and,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Notice: --- That Matthew closes with, “Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” --- Amen. --- (meaning, - so be it.)

Peter ends with the emphasis on the 'signs' that accompanied them as they went out and preached everywhere.

--- Had the Gospel of Mark ended in verse 8 it would have concluded with the resurrection, only.
--- Verse 1 begins with Mary Magdalene and the other women going to the tomb and finding it empty, and seeing an angel that told them that Jesus had risen.

--- And he gave them a message for the disciples:
7 But go, tell His disciples—and Peter—that He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him, as He said to you.”
8 So they went out quickly and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

--- That was a negative ending --- which was apparently in the first manuscript.

When Peter writes his conclusion, he begins again in verse 9 with Mary Magdalene, --- but adds his own identity by mentioning her deliverance --- ‘Mary Magdalene, out of whom He (Jesus) had cast seven demons,’ --- and later he mentions miracles, satanic attacks, and healing, which was his ministry.

--- And he gives the positive ending when he says, in the last verse in Mark 16:
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and ‘confirming the word through the accompanying signs.’ Amen.


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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 3:18pm
Placid,
so according to your post above, if Jesus is sitting on the right hand of God, that makes God sitting on the left hand of Jesus. Is that's how it is?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 8:07am
Hi,

God is pictured as High and Lifted up ON HIS THRONE.


--- And the Resurrected Jesus is on His right hand as His 'right hand Servant.' who fulfilled His mission on earth, and on the cross, when all things were fulfilled, He said. "It is finished."
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