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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: I NEED TRUE BELIEVERS IN JESUS Post Reply Post New Topic
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2013 at 8:54am
Hi Mahdi,

(Sorry about being slow to conclude this. While you may not be interested, there may be others who are reading it too.) --- So, to continue with Mark 16:
18 They will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them.

I have heard about the group in the south that take this verse literally and dance with rattlesnakes. I saw a short clip on TV once, and I have the taped testimony of a singer who was invited as a guest as part of a program.
He observed this foolhardy practice and asked someone about it. They said that occasionally someone has been bitten and died, but some are bitten and recover.
--- It appears to be in the realm of “Tempting the Lord,” in supposedly testing their faith, but it is certainly not any Christian practice.

--- But this is not what Peter was referring to here, as he was talking about the deliverance ministry --- As I said, one of the households of evil spirits are vipers.
Satan/Iblis took on the form of a serpent in the Garden to tempt Eve, and this has been the tactics from then till now.

And he was called by these names in Revelation 20:
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.

It says this about Satan/Iblis, who was cast out of the presence of God, in Surah 7:
13 (God) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
16 He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
17 "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."

Satan was a deceiver and it says in Romans 3:
10 (Concerning judgment on the wicked), --- As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
13 With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
--- This is Satan’s work through the ungodly, “They practice deceit and the poison of asps is under their lips.”

A parallel to Mark 16:18, is found in Luke 10:
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
--- (You see, this identifies the serpents and scorpions of the demonic realm, that they could cast out and 'trample,' or have authority over, --- in the name of Jesus.)

--- An example of being bitten by a serpent with poisonous venom is seen with the Apostle Paul in Acts 28:
1 Now when they had escaped (the shipwreck), they then found out that the island was called Malta.
2 And the natives showed us unusual kindness; for they kindled a fire and made us all welcome, because of the rain that was falling and because of the cold.
3 But when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks and laid them on the fire, a viper came out because of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4 So when the natives saw the creature hanging from his hand, they said to one another, “No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he has escaped the sea, yet justice does not allow to live.”
5 But he shook off the creature into the fire and suffered no harm.
6 However, they were expecting that he would swell up or suddenly fall down dead.

--- If the viper was 'hanging from his hand' it would have been hanging by it's fangs, would it not?

(A little more later)


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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2013 at 2:44pm
"Mark 16..." LOL

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbT88fqLkmo&list=UUNQMOOMpH5KEWDnQCxXgfeA&feature=player_detailpage#t=6015s


Edited by Rational - 07 January 2013 at 2:59pm
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2013 at 4:32pm
Why does the Bible say you can drink poison and survive? ( Is Mark 16:18 a FORGERY !? )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbChj26dMzI

Serpent-handling pastor dies hours after he's bitten by a RATTLESNAKE - nearly 30 years after his father died the same way
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2152184/Serpent-handling-pastor-Mack-Wolford-dies--hours-hes-bitten-RATTLESNAKE.html


Edited by Rational - 07 January 2013 at 4:37pm
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 08 January 2013 at 12:02pm
Hi Mahdi,

Quote: Hmm. I need to get in contact with one of those who claim to perform these miracles. Let us start with the one who delivered you from demons.

Response: ---The One who delivers us from a demon, viper, or evil spirit, --- is God, through the power of His Holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus.
--- With the 7 households of the demonic, people can be effected in the following ways: oppressed, oppressed, occupied by, controlled by, influenced, attacked, obstructed, --- also infected by, or infested by, in the case of diseases.

When a person begins to deal with the spirit world to cast them out of others in Jesus name, --- they become the prime targets for attack.
I can say I have been attacked many times. --- The most scary was early in this new type of ministry when I didn’t know what a battle it would be.
--- We first must be a believer, and be surrendered to God to do His will, --- and because it was Jesus who conquered Satan, sin, and death, --- we have the authority to counteract the work of Satan in calling on the name of Jesus.
We can say, “I command you spirits of evil, of (whatever household), --- that you be cast out in Jesus name.” ---- As Jesus gave them power over demons, serpents and scorpions in Luke 10 in the last Post, we are given the same authority, but only as God directs.

The scary attack I had was at night after I had gone to bed and was asleep. --- I woke up with a tight band around my neck. --- I guess there is no greater fear than being choked. --- I began praying for it to be gone whatever it was, and after a while it was gone. Through the next day I asked the Lord to guide in dealing with that if it came again. --- It did. --- I was sleeping. I woke up with this viper-like feeling around my neck, and I began praying with less fear and more confidence, it left. --- It happened a couple more times. --- The devil uses darkness and fear to intensify the attacks, so I would go in a room, turn on the light, and with my hands out from my throat, I commanded it again to go ‘in Jesus’ name.’ --- It left, and has never returned.
--- (You don’t have to believe this, but I was there when it happened.)

With the devil's attacks, --- when one tactic fails, he tries another, so we have to be on guard, because it tells us in Ephesians 6:
12 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, --- that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
--- (Our battle is not against people, but against the spiritual activity in the unseen world.}

--- As well as Paul taking up a poison viper, I will give you two examples.
The first is a friend of mine who when he was a student was despairing of life, and one night he swallowed a bottle of aspirin tablets
--- While aspirins are not too strong, --- a bottle of them should have been enough to poison him, or thinned his blood to the point of death. --- He said he woke up the next morning as normal as though nothing had happened.

The second is the testimony of a prominent University educated Speaker and Evangelist.
He is from India, and he said when he was young, and living with his father, mother and sisters, this happened.
He said his father was very mean to the whole family and one night in a fit of anger he put them all out of the house, his mother, himself and his sisters.
It was cold and they went next door to a neighboring house but they huddled under the front step. He was angry with his father, but he began thinking, “There can’t be any God or He wouldn’t let my mother suffer this way.”
He decided later to end it all for himself and he got some poison, and started to drink it. --- However, his body rejected it and caused him to throw it up. He kept trying to drink it, but he would throw it up. --- He passed out because enough had gotten through, --- and some time later he woke up in a hospital.
--- In the hospital he saw a Bible, and began to read it. --- He began to believe it and became a Christian, which he is today. He studied, has a University education, and --- in his ministry, he often debates with intellectuals. --- God had saved him from his attempted suicide.

(But many things are poison to our lives, are they not?)


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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 08 January 2013 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by TG12345



Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by TG12345


Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by TG12345


Originally posted by honeto

If there is one, please send over to Africa, to save these lives:

"Snakes Bite 1.5 Million People in Sub-Saharan Africa Yearly
Sep 13, 2011 | 9:50 AM ET | Rachael Rettner, MyHealthNewsDaily Staff Writer"

Also, a question to those who know this:
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.” (Matt. 7:21-23)

Any idea who is addressed here?
Hasan
Salaam Alaikum, Hassan.I believe Matthew 7:21-23 applies to so-called 'christians' who claim to be following God but are not. It applies to people who claim they love Jesus, but look down on the poor and victims of injustice. Applies to those who say they believe in Christ but live their lives in a way that are totally opposite to His teachings. It is about those who make $$$ by fooling people and taking advantage of them, people like Benny Hinn. It applies to those who do good things only because they will be recognized.Who do you think it applies to?


So those who, according to you, do not follow God can still perform miracles in the name of Jesus? Is that's what you are suggesting?
Hasan
Yes. Satan can also use supernatural phenomena.


In the name of Jesus?
Hasan
Read Matthew 7:21-23. You are the one who posted it. It clearly says that not all who do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus are following God. If you do not follow God, you follow the devil.


but it is talking of those who have done wonders in Jesus' name! And that's the question not the one's who did wonders in the name of the devil. And I am not sure if any can do wonders in devils name, do you?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 08 January 2013 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by TG12345



Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by TG12345


Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by TG12345


Originally posted by honeto

If there is one, please send over to Africa, to save these lives:

"Snakes Bite 1.5 Million People in Sub-Saharan Africa Yearly
Sep 13, 2011 | 9:50 AM ET | Rachael Rettner, MyHealthNewsDaily Staff Writer"

Also, a question to those who know this:
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.” (Matt. 7:21-23)

Any idea who is addressed here?
Hasan
Salaam Alaikum, Hassan.I believe Matthew 7:21-23 applies to so-called 'christians' who claim to be following God but are not. It applies to people who claim they love Jesus, but look down on the poor and victims of injustice. Applies to those who say they believe in Christ but live their lives in a way that are totally opposite to His teachings. It is about those who make $$$ by fooling people and taking advantage of them, people like Benny Hinn. It applies to those who do good things only because they will be recognized.Who do you think it applies to?


So those who, according to you, do not follow God can still perform miracles in the name of Jesus? Is that's what you are suggesting?
Hasan
Yes. Satan can also use supernatural phenomena.


In the name of Jesus?
Hasan
Read Matthew 7:21-23. You are the one who posted it. It clearly says that not all who do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus are following God. If you do not follow God, you follow the devil.


but it is talking of those who have done wonders in Jesus' name! And that's the question not the one's who did wonders in the name of the devil. And I am not sure if any can do wonders in devils name, do you?
Hasan


People can do powerful works in the name of Jesus, but not be His followers. People can do wonderful works also in the name of the devil. Why would they not be able to? Satan is a deceiver.
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2013 at 9:03am
Assalamo alaikom

Originally posted by TG12345

People can do powerful works in the name of Jesus, but not be His followers. People can do wonderful works also in the name of the devil

Huh? Confused

Wish you wouldn't make things so complicated!


Edited by Rational - 09 January 2013 at 9:48am
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2013 at 4:25am
Originally posted by Rational

Assalamo alaikom

Originally posted by TG12345

People can do powerful works in the name of Jesus, but not be His followers. People can do wonderful works also in the name of the devil

Huh? Confused

Wish you wouldn't make things so complicated!


What do you find so complicated?
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