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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: I NEED TRUE BELIEVERS IN JESUS Post Reply Post New Topic
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 26 December 2012 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by islamispeace
I never said that all of Sunan Abu Dawud is not authentic.  Rather, I said that some hadiths are considered to be weak.
Originally posted by TG12345
As a bit of an aside, how do you know which are which?
Originally posted by islamispeace
That requires some research.  As far as I know, the hadith I mentioned is considered authentic.
Originally posted by TG12345
Can you show me some proof please? Thank you.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2012 at 2:19am
Originally posted by TG12345

I'm already saved in Christ Jesus my Lord. Hope one day you come to Him too. Smile
A bold statement indeed. Is it not arrogance to think that one is already saved before the Judgement Day?
 
You are mocking God me thinks...even the Prophets (pbut) didn't know if they would be saved.
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2012 at 8:51am
Hi Mahdi,

It is hard to get a continual teaching on these verses in question, when I don’t write a whole page at a time, but I will go on to the next part following the post on the bottom of page 7, which shows that Peter and Mark had access to Luke’s Gospel, as he also was finishing his Gospel account in Rome, --- And he was the one that mentioned Jesus walking with the two on the road to Emmaus, Mark 16:
12 “After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.”

--- And then, The Great Commission
14 Later He (Jesus) appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

This instruction is given in Matthew and Luke as well, --- and this is really the Gospel Message, --- to teach others, so that they might become disciples, also.
--- Mark was not one of the Apostles and he did not have the experience that Matthew and Peter had, in being there with Jesus after His resurrection, and receiving these definite instructions, --- so the Gospel of Mark (and Peter) would not be complete without having this final commission.
.
Now to show one more thing of interest: --- After receiving the commission to go into all the world, Matthew says in 28:
20 --- Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
--- (In saying, “All things that I have commanded you,” --- which would include all of the Gifts of the Spirit, all the miracles and healing, --- but normally when we read it in Matthew, --- we think of the Power of the Word of God in preaching and teaching.)

And Peter (the Pentecostal Preacher on the day of Pentecost) said in Mark 16:
17 --- And these Signs will follow those who believe:

--- (Peter’s final instructions were to demonstrate God’s Power in healing and deliverance, through the Holy Spirit, which would be a continuation of the miracles that Jesus had done among them.
--- Jesus said much earlier to the disciples, in John 14:
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.”

--- And notice that it says this in Mark 16:
17 In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
--- And another verse in Philippians 2 says:
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

--- (You may not understand this from these verses, but when you ask about these Spiritual subjects, and of using “Jesus’ name,” --- there are answers.
--- The realm of healing and deliverance is the realm of demons, and what you call Jinn.)
(More later)


Placid

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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2012 at 6:41am
To continue Mark 16:

17 --- And these Signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;

Notice in verse 9, it identifies Mary Magdalene, 'out of whom Jesus had cast seven demons.' --- Some believed that Jesus could do these miracles while He was living, because He had the Spirit and Power of God in Him, --- but the evidence that the Holy Spirit of God was given to men, had to be in the same Signs and miracles done among believers, that followed Jesus.

To understand how demons and evil Spirits attack and influence all of us we can look at what Satan (Iblis) said in Surah 7:
13 (God) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
16 He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
17 "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."
--- (Because Satan had been cast out of the presence of God and all the angel-spirits that followed him in rebellion against God, Satan became our adversary and those that had followed him, became the demons and evil spirits on earth.)

There are actually 7 categories or ‘households,’ and they are all named in the Scriptures: --- demons, devils, witches, vipers, unclean spirits, foul spirits, and evil spirits. --- They attack humans in various ways, from bad habits, or influencing evil desires, to causing diseases and crippling people. --- Those given to alcohol and drugs are led into Satan’s realm, and they become ‘slaves.’

--- In the early training of the Apostles, Jesus sent them out to witness to the Jews (and Peter was one of them), in Matthew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons

Mark 6:12 So they went out and preached that people should repent.
13 And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.

Jesus sent out another seventy of His disciples and instructed them as he did the twelve, and this is recorded in Luke 10:
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
--- (Notice the mention of ‘serpents and scorpions’ which are part of the demonic realm which I will get to later.)

--- It was very common to cast out demons and evil spirits in the time of Jesus, and this continued all through the NT --- and it continues today.

I want to give one example of an epileptic boy being delivered of a strong demon that was trying to destroy him, in Matthew 17:
14 And when they had come to the multitude, a man came to Him, kneeling down to Him and saying,
15 “Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and suffers severely; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water.
16 So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him.”
17 Then Jesus answered and said, --- “Bring him here to Me.”
18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.

Notice: --- That it was a demon that caused the affliction and not a physical or mental disorder. --- And when the demon was cast out, he was healed.
(More later)


Placid

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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2012 at 7:20am
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Mahdi,

It is hard to get a continual teaching on these verses in question, when I don’t write a whole page at a time, but I will go on to the next part following the post on the bottom of page 7, which shows that Peter and Mark had access to Luke’s Gospel, as he also was finishing his Gospel account in Rome, --- And he was the one that mentioned Jesus walking with the two on the road to Emmaus, Mark 16:
12 “After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.”

--- And then, The Great Commission
14 Later He (Jesus) appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

This instruction is given in Matthew and Luke as well, --- and this is really the Gospel Message, --- to teach others, so that they might become disciples, also.
--- Mark was not one of the Apostles and he did not have the experience that Matthew and Peter had, in being there with Jesus after His resurrection, and receiving these definite instructions, --- so the Gospel of Mark (and Peter) would not be complete without having this final commission.
.
Now to show one more thing of interest: --- After receiving the commission to go into all the world, Matthew says in 28:
20 --- Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
--- (In saying, “All things that I have commanded you,” --- which would include all of the Gifts of the Spirit, all the miracles and healing, --- but normally when we read it in Matthew, --- we think of the Power of the Word of God in preaching and teaching.)

And Peter (the Pentecostal Preacher on the day of Pentecost) said in Mark 16:
17 --- And these Signs will follow those who believe:

--- (Peter’s final instructions were to demonstrate God’s Power in healing and deliverance, through the Holy Spirit, which would be a continuation of the miracles that Jesus had done among them.
--- Jesus said much earlier to the disciples, in John 14:
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.”

--- And notice that it says this in Mark 16:
17 In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
--- And another verse in Philippians 2 says:
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

--- (You may not understand this from these verses, but when you ask about these Spiritual subjects, and of using “Jesus’ name,” --- there are answers.
--- The realm of healing and deliverance is the realm of demons, and what you call Jinn.)
(More later)


Placid



what point are you trying to make?
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2012 at 7:30am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by TG12345

I'm already saved in Christ Jesus my Lord. Hope one day you come to Him too. Smile
A bold statement indeed. Is it not arrogance to think that one is already saved before the Judgement Day?
 
You are mocking God me thinks...even the Prophets (pbut) didn't know if they would be saved.


John 3:16 says

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

I do not mock God, I thank Him for what He did for me as His Son Jesus Christ. I deserve to go to hell, not heaven. However, He has provided a way for me and for you and for everyone else to enter heaven... by believing. Of course, faith involves action as is taught in the book of James, and as Paul teaches us we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

I am grateful to God and in awe of Him and His greatness and majesty and love.
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2012 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by TG12345


Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by TG12345


Originally posted by honeto

If there is one, please send over to Africa, to save these lives:

"Snakes Bite 1.5 Million People in Sub-Saharan Africa Yearly
Sep 13, 2011 | 9:50 AM ET | Rachael Rettner, MyHealthNewsDaily Staff Writer"

Also, a question to those who know this:
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.” (Matt. 7:21-23)

Any idea who is addressed here?
Hasan
Salaam Alaikum, Hassan.I believe Matthew 7:21-23 applies to so-called 'christians' who claim to be following God but are not. It applies to people who claim they love Jesus, but look down on the poor and victims of injustice. Applies to those who say they believe in Christ but live their lives in a way that are totally opposite to His teachings. It is about those who make $$$ by fooling people and taking advantage of them, people like Benny Hinn. It applies to those who do good things only because they will be recognized.Who do you think it applies to?


So those who, according to you, do not follow God can still perform miracles in the name of Jesus? Is that's what you are suggesting?
Hasan
Yes. Satan can also use supernatural phenomena.


In the name of Jesus?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2012 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by TG12345


Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by TG12345


Originally posted by honeto

If there is one, please send over to Africa, to save these lives:

"Snakes Bite 1.5 Million People in Sub-Saharan Africa Yearly
Sep 13, 2011 | 9:50 AM ET | Rachael Rettner, MyHealthNewsDaily Staff Writer"

Also, a question to those who know this:
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.” (Matt. 7:21-23)

Any idea who is addressed here?
Hasan
Salaam Alaikum, Hassan.I believe Matthew 7:21-23 applies to so-called 'christians' who claim to be following God but are not. It applies to people who claim they love Jesus, but look down on the poor and victims of injustice. Applies to those who say they believe in Christ but live their lives in a way that are totally opposite to His teachings. It is about those who make $$$ by fooling people and taking advantage of them, people like Benny Hinn. It applies to those who do good things only because they will be recognized.Who do you think it applies to?


So those who, according to you, do not follow God can still perform miracles in the name of Jesus? Is that's what you are suggesting?
Hasan
Yes. Satan can also use supernatural phenomena.


In the name of Jesus?
Hasan

Read Matthew 7:21-23. You are the one who posted it. It clearly says that not all who do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus are following God. If you do not follow God, you follow the devil.




Edited by TG12345 - 28 December 2012 at 8:00pm
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