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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: I NEED TRUE BELIEVERS IN JESUS Post Reply Post New Topic
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2012 at 4:59pm
Greetings islamispeace,

Ah, here is the problem in our misunderstanding, and I thought about highlighting this last night when I replied...
"I do not believe..."
Once again, this is about belief.
I personally would be surprised to encounter miracles in my part of the world... I am pretty sure I gave this clarification...
here it is;
"Greetings islamispeace,
It is not contradiction, but qualification.There are actually many Christians who report witnessing miracles in parts of the world where peoples minds are still very open to belief.  In my part of the world... not so much.  So personally, I see that the greater part of the world has drifted away and abandoned God as central to life, and the kind of belief needed is not there. "
 but I do not disclaim what others say they have witnessed.  Who am I to say?  Who am I to judge what goes on in other parts of the world?

See you do not take the time to think about and absorb what I say in its entirety.  You are too quick to dispute.

"anyone can make up a "report" that they "witnessed" something unusual.  That does not mean it is true. "
I agree, but when you have many witnesses...
Are you familiar with the Marian apparitions that occur and have been reported by many witnesses around the world?  What do you make of those?  Are they not miracles?

I personally do not believe, or disbelieve, about bigfoot, alien abductions, and the loch ness monster.  I have no reason to think these stories may not be true, but I also have no proof, so I make no final judgment but remain open minded.  I have never heard of the other one... Chupacabra.

Salaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 15 December 2012 at 5:04pm
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 16 December 2012 at 12:17pm
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings islamispeace,

Ah, here is the problem in our misunderstanding, and I thought about highlighting this last night when I replied...
"I do not believe..."
Once again, this is about belief.
I personally would be surprised to encounter miracles in my part of the world... I am pretty sure I gave this clarification...
here it is;
"Greetings islamispeace,
It is not contradiction, but qualification.There are actually many Christians who report witnessing miracles in parts of the world where peoples minds are still very open to belief.  In my part of the world... not so much.  So personally, I see that the greater part of the world has drifted away and abandoned God as central to life, and the kind of belief needed is not there. "
 but I do not disclaim what others say they have witnessed.  Who am I to say?  Who am I to judge what goes on in other parts of the world?

See you do not take the time to think about and absorb what I say in its entirety.  You are too quick to dispute.

"anyone can make up a "report" that they "witnessed" something unusual.  That does not mean it is true. "
I agree, but when you have many witnesses...
Are you familiar with the Marian apparitions that occur and have been reported by many witnesses around the world?  What do you make of those?  Are they not miracles?

I personally do not believe, or disbelieve, about bigfoot, alien abductions, and the loch ness monster.  I have no reason to think these stories may not be true, but I also have no proof, so I make no final judgment but remain open minded.  I have never heard of the other one... Chupacabra.

Salaam,
CH


As usual, your reply does not answer the question and instead resorts to half-answers such as "who am I to judge what goes on in other parts of the world". 

Answer this question: do you think the "miracles" mentioned in Mark 16 occur in other parts of the world, and if so, what proof is there for these "miracles"?

So, if you heard "reports" that Hindu idols were drinking milk, would you believe these as well, because as you say, 'who are you to judge what goes on in other parts of the world"? 

I have heard many "reports" of alleged "miracles" such as apparitions of Mary (as).  I have also heard "reports" of people seeing Mary in their toast!  As I said, just because there are "reports" does not mean they actually happened.  In the absence of proof, they are nothing more than stories.   

Chupacabra is an alleged unknown animal which supposedly drinks the blood of livestock.  "Sightings" of this animal have been made in Central America as well as in southwest US.   
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 December 2012 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by islamispeace


Answer this question: do you think the "miracles" mentioned in Mark 16 occur in other parts of the world, and if so, what proof is there for these "miracles"?


What do you say?
Do you have the answer for absolute certain?

Do you know for absolute certain that Muhammad met an angel in a cave?
Do you know for certain that he took a midnight ride on a flying horse?

Do we know for absolute certain that Moses and a bunch of Israelites crossed the reed sea?

I say I do not have the answers, only what I may, or may not, believe.


Edited by Caringheart - 16 December 2012 at 2:27pm
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 17 December 2012 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



Originally posted by islamispeace

Answer this question: do you think the "miracles" mentioned in Mark 16 occur in other parts of the world, and if so, what proof is there for these "miracles"?
What do you say?Do you have the answer for absolute certain?Do you know for absolute certain that Muhammad met an angel in a cave?Do you know for certain that he took a midnight ride on a flying horse?Do we know for absolute certain that Moses and a bunch of Israelites crossed the reed sea?I say I do not have the answers, only what I may, or may not, believe.


Caringheart,
what that has to do with the topic??
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 17 December 2012 at 7:04pm
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by islamispeace


Answer this question: do you think the "miracles" mentioned in Mark 16 occur in other parts of the world, and if so, what proof is there for these "miracles"?


What do you say?
Do you have the answer for absolute certain?

Do you know for absolute certain that Muhammad met an angel in a cave?
Do you know for certain that he took a midnight ride on a flying horse?

Do we know for absolute certain that Moses and a bunch of Israelites crossed the reed sea?

I say I do not have the answers, only what I may, or may not, believe.


Caringheart is still avoiding answering my questions and instead responds with questions of her own.

But I get it.  You have no proof.  Got it.  Thanks.

But you also did not answer my question about the Hindu idols.  You said that you cannot judge what goes on in other parts of the world, so if you heard "reports" of Hindu idols drinking milk, would you be inclined to keep an "open mind" or would you dismiss it as pagan myth?  I am sure you can see where I am going with this. 




Edited by islamispeace - 17 December 2012 at 7:09pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 17 December 2012 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

MARK 16;15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well"

i am tired of talking to pretend believers. all i need is one person in the whole world who can do these things and i will give my life to Jesus. if these things can be proven to be true, even if by only one person, everything else will not matter to me. so please, if there is any believer in Jesus, or anybody who knows a believer in Jesus, please help me out.


Salaam Alaikum, MahditheSeeker. I have to admit this is a good question, and one I also wonder a lot about.

In the Book of Acts, Jesus' followers did drive out demons, lay hands on the sick and heal them, and Paul's hand was latched on to a viper which did not bite him.

Acts 5:12-16

The apostles performed many signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon’s Colonnade. No one else dared join them, even though they were highly regarded by the people. Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number. As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by impure spirits, and all of them were healed.

Acts 28:1-6

28 Once safely on shore, we found out that the island was called Malta. The islanders showed us unusual kindness. They built a fire and welcomed us all because it was raining and cold. Paul gathered a pile of brushwood and, as he put it on the fire, a viper, driven out by the heat, fastened itself on his hand. When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, “This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, the goddess Justice has not allowed him to live.” But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects.
The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead; but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.

Speaking in tongues also took place in Acts 2:1-13

When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tonguesa]">[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,b]">[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”


As the Bible states, there were some early Christians who did do these things. The verse does not say that the signs will accompany every believer, or how often they will happen in history.


Some Christian Biblical commentators are of the view that these signs were intended for the early church only, to help spread the faith.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

And these signs - These miracles. These evidences that they are sent from God.

Them that believe - The apostles, and those in the primitive age who were endowed with like power. This promise was fulfilled if it can be shown that these signs followed in the case of any who believed, and it is not necessary to suppose that they would follow in the case of all. The meaning is, that they would be the result of faith, or of the belief of the gospel. It is true that they were. These signs were shown in the case of the apostles and early Christians. The infidel cannot say that the promise has not been fulfilled unless he can show that this never occurred; the Christian should be satisfied that the promise was fulfilled if these miracles were ever actually wrought, though they do not occur now; and the believer now should not expect a miracle in his case. Miracles were necessary for the establishment of religion in the world; they are not necessary for its continuance now.

In my name - By my authority, and using the power that I would in such cases, if bodily present. This was done; and in this they differed essentially from the manner in which Jesus himself wrought miracles. He did it in "his own name," and as possessing original, underived authority. See the account of his stilling the sea (Matthew 8:26, etc.); of his healing the sick Matthew 9:5-6; of his raising Lazarus, John 11. The prophets spoke "in the name of the Lord." The apostles did likewise, Acts 3:6, etc. There was, therefore, an important difference between Jesus and all the other messengers that God has sent into the world. He acted in his own name; they in the name of another. He wielded his own power; they were the instruments by which God put forth the omnipotence of his arm to save. He was therefore God; they were men of like passions as other men, Acts 14:15.

Shall they cast out devils - See the notes at Matthew 4:24. Compare Acts 16:16-18.

Shall speak with new tongues - Shall speak other languages than their native language. This was remarkably fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:4-11. It existed, also, in other places. See 1 Corinthians 12:10.

http://bible.cc/mark/16-17.htm


On the topic of poisons, what do you think of this hadith?


Volume 7, Book 71, Number 663:

Narrated Saud:

The Prophet said, "If somebody takes some 'Ajwa dates every morning, he will not be effected by poison or magic on that day till night." (Another narrator said seven dates).


Volume 7, Book 71, Number 664:

Narrated Saud:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "If Somebody takes seven 'Ajwa dates in the morning, neither magic nor poison will hurt him that day."

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/071-sbt.php#007.071.582


If you were to eat 7 dates tomorrow morning, and then later that day bite down on a cyanide capsule or two or drink a cup of bleach or gasoline or eat some rat poison, would you not be harmed?


Of course I am not advocating you do this. But what do you think would happen?


Would it fair or reasonable of me to demand of Muslims to do the above, since if I am not mistaken you are called to listen to the teachings of Muhammad and he clearly said it that poison will not harm you during that day as long as you have seven dates in the morning?

Are you a `pretend believer` because of the fact (I hope!) you are not going to eat 7 dates tomorrow morning and then a few hours later swallow a spoonful of rat poison or down a cup of bleach or insecticide? *


*again, please don`t!!!!


Thanks and may God lead us all to the truth. Smile




Edited by TG12345 - 17 December 2012 at 8:25pm
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 17 December 2012 at 9:48pm
New International Version (©1984)
they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."Mark 16:18
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2012 at 12:40am
still waiting.all i am getting is excuses.guess there are no true believers on this forum.the day i find one anywhere in the universe, i will believe the Bible.
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