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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 03 December 2012 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by honeto

I guess gave them chance to steal their homeland?
So, let me get this straight Matt, if someone comes and occupy your home and limits YOU the owner to the garage and the shed part of the house on the opposite ends and occupies the main house, you the owner cannot be bad with them, if you are Matt is going to call you bad. So do not resist if someone tries to occupy your home by force according to our Matt.
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"If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there."    Malcolm X

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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:47am
Originally posted by nothing

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Nothing, you forgot to mention the misery Israeli people have to endure. Seeing the Palestinians as the only victims will never lead to peace.

Oh I must have missed it, what happened, what the Palestinian have done to them?


I find it very strange that you have missed this and do not know about Israelis being the victims of rocket attacks and suicide bombers.



Edited by Matt Browne - 04 December 2012 at 3:14am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:57am
Originally posted by honeto

I guess gave them chance to steal their homeland?
So, let me get this straight Matt, if someone comes and occupy your home and limits YOU the owner to the garage and the shed part of the house on the opposite ends and occupies the main house, you the owner cannot be bad with them, if you are Matt is going to call you bad. So do not resist if someone tries to occupy your home by force according to our Matt.
Hasan


Exactly, Hasan. Resisting this is perfectly normal. But keep in mind that the majority of Israelis were born after 1948 and have built houses and are now being threatened to leave their houses and be driven into the sea to drown.

I agree that the world community could have handled the matter in a better way back in 1948. But we cannot undo the past. Millions of Germans who have not voted for the Nazis, and were against their agenda, lost their homes in Eastern Europe. Their West German brothers and sisters invited all the millions of refugees and shared their homes. Should the children of these refuges now ask Poles and Romanians and all the others to leave Poland and Romania so that the Germans can go back? The Arab brothers and sisters did not invite the Palestinian refugees and they didn't share their homes. They still don't to this day. All they do is asking for Israelis to be killed so that Palestinians can go back to what used to be Palestine. That's a pseudovision for the future. That's a recipe for doom.

What is your vision of a better future in the Middle East, Hasan? I guess you don't have one.

Very few Muslims have the creativity to come up with proposals that take into account the interests of both Israelis and Palestinians. It's so much easier to simply hate the Jews and not give a damn about them. If they all drown in the sea, so what. Problem solved. This is not how people like myself, who care about all our fellow human beings, think.




Edited by Matt Browne - 04 December 2012 at 3:09am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 3:13am
Originally posted by abuayisha

"If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there."    Malcolm X



Who represents the knife here? In my view there are multiple knives and bodies involved here. As long as Israelis are not seen as human beings who are also victims, we won't see any progress. It seems, Abuayisha, that you don't have a vision for a better future either.



Edited by Matt Browne - 04 December 2012 at 3:15am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Matt Browne







Originally posted by honeto

I guess gave them chance to steal their homeland?
So, let me get this straight Matt, if someone comes and occupy your home and limits YOU the owner to the garage and the shed part of the house on the opposite ends and occupies the main house, you the owner cannot be bad with them, if you are Matt is going to call you bad. So do not resist if someone tries to occupy your home by force according to our Matt.
Hasan
Exactly, Hasan. Resisting this is perfectly normal. But keep in mind that the majority of Israelis were born after 1948 and have built houses and are now being threatened to leave their houses and be driven into the sea to drown.I agree that the world community could have handled the matter in a better way back in 1948. But we cannot undo the past. Millions of Germans who have not voted for the Nazis, and were against their agenda, lost their homes in Eastern Europe. Their West German brothers and sisters invited all the millions of refugees and shared their homes. Should the children of these refuges now ask Poles and Romanians and all the others to leave Poland and Romania so that the Germans can go back? The Arab brothers and sisters did not invite the Palestinian refugees and they didn't share their homes. They still don't to this day. All they do is asking for Israelis to be killed so that Palestinians can go back to what used to be Palestine. That's a pseudovision for the future. That's a recipe for doom.What is your vision of a better future in the Middle East, Hasan? I guess you don't have one.Very few Muslims have the creativity to come up with proposals that take into account the interests of both Israelis and Palestinians. It's so much easier to simply hate the Jews and not give a damn about them. If they all drown in the sea, so what. Problem solved. This is not how people like myself, who care about all our fellow human beings, think.






Matt,
so if a child is born in a prison, that prison belongs to him/her? That's an interesting logic and belief you present!

According to international laws of the civilized world, building on illegally taken land is just that, illegal. Such settlement has been declared as illegal since they were first built. Just like today the recently announced Israeli plan to build another 300 homes in the occupied territories is illegal but they are breaking the international law anyway and as always, as if they are above the law, they have been doing this since 1948.
It is a shame that Israel is being let go with probably the longest list of crimes against humanity and non-compliance to international laws under the protection of the West, the US government in particular.
It is a shame that some people like you think that it's OK.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 04 December 2012 at 11:51am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne



Originally posted by nothing


Originally posted by Matt Browne

Nothing, you forgot to mention the misery Israeli people have to endure. Seeing the Palestinians as the only victims will never lead to peace.
Oh I must have missed it, what happened, what the Palestinian have done to them?
I find it very strange that you have missed this and do not know about Israelis being the victims of rocket attacks and suicide bombers.


Matt,
Israelis are a victim to their own aggression. If they have learned from their past, the Holocaust, they would have never committed crimes against Palestinians that will drive them to commit crimes in return.
Surely one wrong leads to many wrongs, in this case a chain of wrongs.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by honeto


so if a child is born in a prison, that prison belongs to him/her? That's an interesting logic and belief you present!
Hasan

I'm curious Hasan,
You have said that you live in the United States.  Are you a citizen of the United States?  If so, how did you become a citizen of the United States?
You have children.  Are they citizens of the United States with rights in the land?  How did most immigrants come to be citizens of the countries in which they live?

It is foolishness to live in the past rather than deal with things as they presently are.  The past is past, what's done is done.  The future will not improve unless people are willing to accept the past and move forward from where they now are.  Where would Russia be today if it clung to the past?  Where would Germany be today if it clung to the past and past injustices?  What about Poland, Austria, Vietnam, Korea, Japan?  All those who have endured injustices.
I urge you to try and think with a clear, fair, and open mind.

Salaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 04 December 2012 at 2:37pm
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whitelion553
 
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Quote whitelion553 Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 9:31pm

Address by H.E. Dr. Mahmud Ahmadinejad President of the Islamic Republic of Iran before the 65th Session of the United Nations General Assembly

New York 23 September 2010

the occupation of the Palestinian

The oppressed people of Palestine have lived under the rule of an occupying regime for 60 years, been deprived of freedom, security and the right to self-determination, while the occupiers are given recognition. On a daily basis, the houses are being destroyed over the heads of innocent women and children. People are deprived of water, food and medicine in their own homeland. The Zionists have imposed five all-out wars on the neighboring countries and on the Palestinian people.
The Zionists committed the most horrible crimes against the defenseless people in the wars against Lebanon and Gaza.
The Zionist regime attacked a humanitarian flotilla in a blatant defiance of all international norms and kills the civilians.
This regime which enjoys the absolute support of some western countries regularly threatens the countries in the region and continues publicly announced assassination of Palestinian figures and others, while Palestinian defenders and those opposing this regime are pressured, labeled as terrorists and anti Semites. All values, even the freedom of expression, in Europe and in the United States are being sacrificed at the altar of Zionism.
Solutions are doomed to fail because the right of the Palestinian people is not taken into account.
Would we have witnessed such horrendous crimes if instead of recognizing the occupation, the sovereign right of the Palestinian people had been recognized?
Our unambiguous proposition is the return of the Palestinian refugees to their home land and the reference to the vote of the people of Palestine to exercise their sovereignty and decide on the type of governance
i try to say only facts
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