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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 6:20am
As mentioned in the other thread: keep in mind that the majority of Israelis were born after 1948 and have build houses and are now being threatened to leave their houses and be driven into the sea to drown.

I agree that the world community could have handled the matter in a better way back in 1948. But we cannot undo the past. Millions of Germans who have not voted for the Nazis and were against their agenda lost their homes in Eastern Europe. Their West German brothers and sisters invited all the millions of refuges and shared their homes. Should the children of these refuges now ask Poles and Romanians and all the others to leave Poland and Romania so that the Germans can go back? The Arab brothers and sisters did not invite the Palestinian refugees and they didn't share their homes. They still don't to this day. All they do is asking for Israelis to be killed so that Palestinians can go back to what used to be Palestine. That's a pseudovision for the future. That's a recipe for doom.

Renaming Israel to Palestine won't work. It could be named Israel-Palestine. There are a lot of countries with hyphens in them. Michael Lerner suggested several models.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:42pm
Matt,
the Jews are still collecting money from what was done to them during Holocaust. If they have committed a crime, stole anything (land in this case) they are thief. And a thief does not become clean after death, until the property is returned to its rightful owners, the Palestinians.
I know certain things cannot be undone, like torture or Palestinians, mass murder of innocent villagers, loss of their livestock, their farms, houses, their livelihood, their dreams and so on. But there are ways to do the justice. When a criminal kills an innocent man, we cannot bring back the deceased, but in order to serve justice we punish the killer. The world must unite and punish Israel for it's crime and compensate to the Palestinians for what injustices they have suffered for several generations now.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Shaik Speare
 
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Quote Shaik Speare Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2012 at 8:52am
Originally posted by Matt Browne

As mentioned in the other thread: keep in mind that the majority of Israelis were born after 1948
And a majority of them were imported.
Originally posted by Matt Browne

have build houses and are now being threatened to leave their houses and be driven into the sea to drown.
Typical hasbara...
Originally posted by Matt Browne

I agree that the world community could have handled the matter in a better way back in 1948. But we cannot undo the past. Millions of Germans who have not voted for the Nazis and were against their agenda lost their homes in Eastern Europe. Their West German brothers and sisters invited all the millions of refuges and shared their homes. Should the children of these refuges now ask Poles and Romanians and all the others to leave Poland and Romania so that the Germans can go back? The Arab brothers and sisters did not invite the Palestinian refugees and they didn't share their homes. They still don't to this day.
They don't need to, because the UN has promised the Palestinians a state of their own and the right of the refugees to return to their homeland. Now what the World community should do is - implement those resolutions, and by all accounts, that won't bode well for Israel or atleast it's Jewish character. You see, the very foundation of Israel is on shaky grounds.
Originally posted by Matt Browne

All they do is asking for Israelis to be killed so that Palestinians can go back to what used to be Palestine. That's a pseudovision for the future. That's a recipe for doom.Renaming Israel to Palestine won't work. It could be named Israel-Palestine. There are a lot of countries with hyphens in them. Michael Lerner suggested several models.
Matt, you should stop making hasty generalisations if you are to show yourself as an unbiased observer. All that the Palestinians need to realise their aspirations is the implementation of UN resolutions. Any solution to this issue should prioritise justice, not the wishful thinking and wants of those who happen to have considerable power.
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 16 December 2012 at 7:51am
The West Bank and Gaza would already be a country recognized by the UN, if all Palestinian leaders acknowledged Israel's right to exist. The West Bank and Gaza would already be a country if the Israeli government returned to the 1967 borders and made the illegal settlers leave their settlements. Israelis elect hardliners because of the Hamas threat. Palestinians elect Hamas because of the Israeli hardliners. It's called a deadlock. Michael Lerner describes a way out of it.





Edited by Matt Browne - 16 December 2012 at 7:52am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 December 2012 at 2:44pm
Well said Matt.
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Shaik Speare
 
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Quote Shaik Speare Replybullet Posted: 17 December 2012 at 5:35am
Originally posted by Matt Browne

The West Bank and Gaza would already be a country recognized by the UN, if all Palestinian leaders acknowledged Israel's right to exist.
Which Israel are the Palestinians supposed to recognise? The Israel of the UN partition plan? The 1949-67 Israel? Or the Israel as it is now? Has Israel ever defined it's borders?
Originally posted by Matt Browne

Israelis elect hardliners because of the Hamas threat. Palestinians elect Hamas because of the Israeli hardliners.
Israelis have elected hardliners even before Hamas was born.

Edited by Shaik Speare - 17 December 2012 at 5:38am
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Quote whitelion553 Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2012 at 10:41pm

 

"In the Name of Allah "The All Beneficent the All Merciful "All Praise belongs to Allah the Lord of the Worlds and may His Peace and blessings be upon the supreme Messenger the Trustworthy Prophet and his immaculate Household the chosen testaments .the problem of the occupation of Palestine and the holy city of Qods the biggest catastrophe that has befallen the Islamic Ummah in contemporary history as a result of colonial plots .The present era is an era of Islamic awakening with Palestine at its very core " since the occupation of Palestine the oppressed Palestinian people have been through periods of severe ordeal and have undergone various tribulations beginning with an unequal and desperate resistance followed by homlessness and ex ile devastation of homes and homeland massacre of dear ones recourse to international bodies taking resort in fruitless political bargainings and the totally hapless gamble of negotiating with the occupier with the mediation of those very powers who bear the principal guilt for bringing about this calamity and are responsible for its continuation "The outcome of this historical experience was to bring the proud young generation of that brave and enlightened people to the peaks of awakening unleashing the volcano of the Intifada "The opposite camp has also passed through various stages extending from merciless and unbridled savagery ferocious destructiveness and genocide military aggression against neighboring states and entertaining of the Nile to Euphrates pretensions to political and economic encroachment on the region by exploiting the weakness and betrayal of some politicians of the Muslim world leading up to its sudden encounter with the awakened lion of Palestine aroused from slumber and the roaring Intifada of an arisen people at the end of their patience "The outcome of this eventful process backed all along by the power and wealth of Britain and America with their disgraceful support for Zionist criminals is the present unsteadiness uncertainty and despair among the leaders of the usurper regime and their encounter with the roaring and rising waves of Islamic awakening "It is true that Palestine still remains the scene of most heinous crimes by the Zionist usurpers and foreigners against the ands oppressed owners Most barbarous and unparalleled acts of inhumanity are flagrantly committed and proudly announced by the Zionist regime But a glance at the record of this  drama reveals a startling and instructive reality which is nothing other than a drastically changed scene and a shifting of power across the fronts inside Palestine as well as beyond it within the Middle East and across the Muslim world for whose longterm subjugation basically the disastrous usurpation of Palestine had been planned and executed by Western statesmen "Consider the Palestine of the 40s a land in the heart of the Arab world an unaware people an impoverished country under a weak government with colonial puppets as its neighbors "The wealthiest the most well armed and nefarious of Western powers urged on by the Zionists wrests this country from its Muslim people and hands it over to a racist rapacious and terrorist party "All Western governments as well as both the worlds rival political blocs support it The regions puppet regimes such as Pahlavi Iran and some others betray Islam and Arab identity to place themselves at its service "Money arms science and technology are put at its disposal from all sides The United States acts as its patron attorney and steward and this is the only matter regarding which the Soviet Union has no dispute with the United States UN resolutions despite their weak and cautious tone are totally ignored by the fake and lawless Zionist regime "Encouraged by US and European support it launches military attacks on Egypt ,Syria, Jordan and Lebanon and invades their territories with the intent of permanent occupation "It raves recklessly and threatens with assassination murder and pillage Notorious terrorists attain to high office one after another the last of them being the infamous war criminal of the Sabra and Shatila massacres "For several decades the usurper regime maintains its violent intransigent extortionate and irrepressible face on the Palestinian scene "On the opposite front following the initial weakness and friability and failure of half done efforts of the early years experiments are made one after another "The theoretical and practical products of nationalism Marxism and the like fail the tests "Religious faith held strongly by the people gradually creates shimmers of light on the narrow and bleak horizon with the courage of patient and tread fast combatants "At the moment all of a sudden the sun of the Islamic Revolution rises in the east There the name of Palestine was written on the high banner of this Divine revolution with the name of God and Islamic shariah "This was a point of departure in the course of events and with it began the unraveling of the usurper regime and the decline in the region of the absolute dominance of the United States which had been a consistent collaborator of the usurper regime in its crimes "There emerge Jihadist groups in Palestine and Lebanon with faith in Islam constituting a new generation of genuine and unswerving combatants "The values of Jihad and martyrdom are revived and the genuine power that of a nation resolute in its spirit of firmness and sacrifice recovers its place in the political equations of Palestine and the region "The noble blood of martyrdom seeking youths and the presence of dauntless warriors within the struggle invalidate all calculations f worldly materialists and hedonists opening a new arena where blood triumphs over sword "Today after those trying beginnings the forces of truth now fresh and resolute with revived hopes and motives grounded in faith things that absorb the young generations continue to grow stronger day by day in Palestine and marching with their heroic jihad towards manifest victory inflict on the enemy a series of military and political defeats one after another in Palestine and Lebanon "It appears as if the following words of God were addressed to them "Allah has promised you abundant spoils which you will capture "He has expedited this one for you and withheld men hands rom you so that it may be a sign for the faithful and that He may guide you to a straight path And other [spoils] which you have not yet captured Allah has comprehended them and Allah has power over all things.(2006/04/14)words of leader of Iran

i try to say only facts
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2012 at 12:14pm
"Allah has promised you abundant spoils which you will capture..."
This god sounds like a god of war.
... and one who promotes thieving?


Edited by Caringheart - 22 December 2012 at 1:13pm
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