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Message Icon Event: Contrasting Qur'an and Ahadith of Muhammad. - Event Date: 17 November 2012 Post Reply Post New Topic
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2012 at 1:38pm
Assalamu alaika Honeto.

I must admit that I find it difficult to explain myself because of the nature of Arabic language. It is difficult to translate. If you try to explain it becomes monotonous to some.  Nonetheless, I will not be held responsible for misguiding any one.
First of all, recall the encounter of the holy apostle with angel Gabriel. This is explained by him in his hadith: seeking knowledge is obligatory on all believers, even if he were to go to China. No one is exempted therefore. Individuals have their own motives and intentions.
There are guidelines set up from the time of Umar ibn Khattab that was consolidated in the 1st century of Hijra on the one to give a Fatwa. The Tabi'un for example stated that the one who does not know Asbab-al-nuzul is not allowed to explain the Qur'an. These were Arabs, yet they set that criteria because the life history of the holy apostle is described. If you take the books on the Tafsir of the Qur'an in Arabic from al-Itqan fi ulum-alqur'an to al-mubahith fi ulum-al-qur'an by for example Luayy you will see that they even demand knowing the time of revelation in winter or summer at night or day.
An American Dr. bilal Phillips in item 3 of hois conditions for translating the Qur'an said: The Mufassir must have working knowledge of classical Arabic, its grammatical constructions and its figures of speech because this is the language of the Qur'an. Any Tafseer which is based solely on a translation of some of the meanings of the Qur'an will be liable to distortion. As Mujaahid, stuident of ibn 'Abbas said, "It is not allowable for anyone who believes in Allah and the last day to explain Allah's Book if he is not knowlegeable in the Arabic language." The Mufassir should also know the other Islamic sciences which are connected in one way or another to the Quraan such as, Hadeeth and Fiqh....
For example you quote Qur'an 1:159. Its correct Tafsir includes:
1. It is an early Madinan verse probably in the third year.
2. It was revealed in relation to the stoning of an adultress. In addition to Muadth ibn Jabbal, Sa'eed ibn Muadth, Hrijah bin Zayd
3. It has a general application. For example I know that the Arafat is observed wrongly. What will happen to me if I keep silent?  Abu Loren has refused to answer my questions and probably you. Why are you concealing the truth?
4. You should know the remarks of Abu Huaraira.
5. You should know what the holy apostle told Barra'a ibn Azib during the funeral prayer.
6. The explanation given by Imam Shatibi in his book Muwafiqat: Vol. 1 pp.95-104; Vol.4 pp77-78, 125.
I hope you have understood me. I am not trying to be arrogant or over assuming. I am just trying to know the truth. I believe that I am on the Right path.
Note I always check my understanding with the meaning of the words as given in Lisan 'Arab by Ibn Manzur.
I could have been in Florida today for my book signing had it not that my visa to USA was delayed. I may visit Guadalajara in Dec. if I can get visa. I will contact you next time I am in USA probably in March.
May Allah bring you back to your family safely.
Friendship.

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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2012 at 11:24pm
When observing the dialog here, an article from Mirza B. comes to mind. She is a Muslim from India:

"... We Muslims are a people who are the least self critical of all mankind. We love fooling ourselves. We teach our own history in a way that makes us look good and so effectively prevents us from learning anything useful that we can apply today. ... In almost every Muslim religious discourse worldwide, we hear innumerable stories of heroic military leadership of our illustrious predecessors in the remote past. But I ask myself, how many examples do we hear of educators who established universities? Of business leaders who built economies and industries? Of scientists who gave the world new inventions and discoveries? Of rulers who created models of administration and governance that can be emulated today? ... The first sign of a desire to change is to accept that we have a problem. And that we are its authors. The empowering thing about owning the problem is that you also then own the solution. When we export blame as we are habituated to do, we also export the solution and so the problem remains with us and continues to trouble us. We must accept that we are the cause of our internal differences and strife. If we want to build mutual understanding, nothing and nobody can change that. People can try and they will try but they will never succeed if we don't let them. The coming together of the two Germanys and of the two Vietnams are classic examples. You will be astonished to learn about a recently published book on Christian denominations, each with its own church, theological concept, literature, services and priests. The author counted a total of 33,000. Yes, I have not put too many zeros. There are actually 33,000 Christian denominations. But have you ever seen one denomination bombing another's church? Have you seen the followers of one denomination suicide bombing the followers of another denomination? Have you heard any statement from the Pope calling the Church of England infidel? Occasionally you might hear statements like my church is better than yours. Have you heard a statement from the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or anyone else calling the Catholics infidels?"

Muslims who have different interpretations of Islam should treat each other with respect. Only then can they learn to treat followers of other religions with respect which is the basic for peace on Earth.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2012 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne

When observing the dialog here, an article from Mirza B. comes to mind. She is a Muslim from India:

"... We Muslims are a people who are the least self critical of all mankind. We love fooling ourselves. We teach our own history in a way that makes us look good and so effectively prevents us from learning anything useful that we can apply today. ... In almost every Muslim religious discourse worldwide, we hear innumerable stories of heroic military leadership of our illustrious predecessors in the remote past. But I ask myself, how many examples do we hear of educators who established universities? Of business leaders who built economies and industries? Of scientists who gave the world new inventions and discoveries? Of rulers who created models of administration and governance that can be emulated today? ... The first sign of a desire to change is to accept that we have a problem. And that we are its authors. The empowering thing about owning the problem is that you also then own the solution. When we export blame as we are habituated to do, we also export the solution and so the problem remains with us and continues to trouble us. We must accept that we are the cause of our internal differences and strife. If we want to build mutual understanding, nothing and nobody can change that. People can try and they will try but they will never succeed if we don't let them. The coming together of the two Germanys and of the two Vietnams are classic examples. You will be astonished to learn about a recently published book on Christian denominations, each with its own church, theological concept, literature, services and priests. The author counted a total of 33,000. Yes, I have not put too many zeros. There are actually 33,000 Christian denominations. But have you ever seen one denomination bombing another's church? Have you seen the followers of one denomination suicide bombing the followers of another denomination? Have you heard any statement from the Pope calling the Church of England infidel? Occasionally you might hear statements like my church is better than yours. Have you heard a statement from the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or anyone else calling the Catholics infidels?"

Muslims who have different interpretations of Islam should treat each other with respect. Only then can they learn to treat followers of other religions with respect which is the basic for peace on Earth.

 
First of all who cares what Mirza B thinks? Google the golden age of Islam what the Muslims brought to the Western civilisation.
 
Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunately.
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 2:16am
Civilizations who don't care what others think are doomed.

What do you mean exactly by 'will not be tolerated' ?

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 5:22am
Assalamu alaikum. Abu Loren.

You said: Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunately
Response: Who is more deviant than the one who performs an act not performed by Muhammad Rasulullah? You said: You thought the Pilgrims are to wear their Ihram on the 8th and go to Mina on the 9th. Where is the place of 'thinking' called 'ra'ay' in the Sunna of Muhammad Rasulullah? Have you forgotten this hadith: Who ever attributes something I did not say, let him find his place in hellfire.
Go back to school and learn before it is too late! Islam and hence following the Sunna is not by decoration or assumption.

Friendship.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 7:56am
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum. Abu Loren.

You said: Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunately
Response: Who is more deviant than the one who performs an act not performed by Muhammad Rasulullah? You said: You thought the Pilgrims are to wear their Ihram on the 8th and go to Mina on the 9th. Where is the place of 'thinking' called 'ra'ay' in the Sunna of Muhammad Rasulullah? Have you forgotten this hadith: Who ever attributes something I did not say, let him find his place in hellfire.
Go back to school and learn before it is too late! Islam and hence following the Sunna is not by decoration or assumption.

Friendship.
 
Wa Alaikkum As'alaam
 
Why don't you tell us the great secret you are hiding? Why don't you share with the the dvine knowledge that you claim to possess? Why don't you tell us instead keep asking st**id questions? If we are wrong then we will check against what is available from the Holy Qur'and and the Hadiths of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 9:50am
Assalamu alaikum.

Abu Loreen said: Why don't you tell us instead keep asking st**id questions?
Implication: This means that it is st**id to ask questions on what Muhammad preached. Note that, if Allah had wanted spoon feeding in Islam, angel Gabriel could not have pressed on Muhammad to read. You will be held account for whatever you utter, conceive and act. What will be your response in the hereafter when Allah will ask you: Read your book. You are enough to account on yourself. Just tell the forum that you are ignorant and stop saying on what you do not know about Muhammad. I am against arguing with the People of the Book because that is not part of the teaching of Muhammad. I participate out of respect of the Torah and the New Testament, but it is turned into ridiculing and jesting. 
You said: We are wrong then we will check against what is available from the Holy Qur'and and the Hadiths of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).
Response: But I am asking you to produce your evidence from the Qur'an and the hadith that the 9th of Zulhajj is the day of Arafat. Why not do it?
Why should I tell you when the book you are advised to read is rubbish?
You are wrong in virtually whatever you are doing, except pronouncing the Shahada.

Friendship.

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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

Abu Loreen said: Why don't you tell us instead keep asking st**id questions?
Implication: This means that it is st**id to ask questions on what Muhammad preached. Note that, if Allah had wanted spoon feeding in Islam, angel Gabriel could not have pressed on Muhammad to read. You will be held account for whatever you utter, conceive and act. What will be your response in the hereafter when Allah will ask you: Read your book. You are enough to account on yourself. Just tell the forum that you are ignorant and stop saying on what you do not know about Muhammad. I am against arguing with the People of the Book because that is not part of the teaching of Muhammad. I participate out of respect of the Torah and the New Testament, but it is turned into ridiculing and jesting. 
You said: We are wrong then we will check against what is available from the Holy Qur'and and the Hadiths of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).
Response: But I am asking you to produce your evidence from the Qur'an and the hadith that the 9th of Zulhajj is the day of Arafat. Why not do it?
Why should I tell you when the book you are advised to read is rubbish?
You are wrong in virtually whatever you are doing, except pronouncing the Shahada.

Friendship.

 
Wa Alaikkum As'alaam
 
You seem to have this idea in your head that you are a great Islamic scholar but you don't give any answers. You seem to think that you have discovered the secrets which have been hidden from Islam for 1434 years yet you don't divulge them to those who ask.
 
I gave you a hadith which pointed to the Prophet (Salallahy Alayhi Wa Sallah) goint to Arafat on the 9th of Dhul Hijjah. All the Islamic web sites which have information about the Hajj state that the Day of Arafat is on the 9th. If you think this is wrong then I ask you once again tell us oh knowledgeable one the answer.
 
Try this link from the Ministry of Hajj, Kindong of Saudi Arabia.
 
 
If we are all wrong then GIVE US THE ANSWER!
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