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i.dawa
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Topic: 1967 Borders (Palestine)
    Posted: 17 November 2012 at 9:20am
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

1967 Borders

They talk about the 1967 borders as if it was blessed by Allah (swt) and we were given new revelation cancelling the Sharia Rule with regards to:

1) When the Muslim Armies conquer any land it becomes part of the Islamic State (Khilafah) and this was the case under the Khilafah when Muslims lived by Islam as one ummah with one Ruler.

(When Dr Hertzel offered to buy Palestine from the Islamic State sultan Abdul Hamid (Muslim Ruler) said it was not his to give away, it belonged to the Muslims who had irrigated it with their blood and that while he was alive, he would rather be cut to pieces rather than allow the Islamic lands to be dismembered.


2) It is forbidden (Haram) to give away any land which belongs to the Muslims

"Whoever seeks to divide Muslim land, kill him, whoever he may be. And Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (hadith)

3) When Umar bin Alkhattab (ra) conquered Palestine he expelled the Jews from there which is a Sharia Rule as per Ijma as-Sahaba not to let them reside there.


Unfortunately, the Kuffar having the upper hand over us managed to divide us by making false borders between us and gave us kufr identities. They succeeded in secularising the Islamic Ummah who started to look to the Kuffar for solutions despite the warnings of Allah (swt).

"O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (Mushrikeen, Kuffaar, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand." (3:118)


Anyone who claims to represent the Muslims and Islam must stick to the Sharia and not play games with Sharia rules claiming times have changed and we live in a modern world where we have to respect the wishes of the International community or else we will be singled out and the world will turn against us.

"O Prophet! Keep your duty to Allah and obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. And follow that which is inspired to you from your Lord. Verily, Allah is well aquainted with what you do. And put your trust in Allah and Sufficient is Allah as Trustee." (Suratul Ahzaab 33:1-3)


Remember O believers - It is Allah who created the universe and everything within it. The battle between Iman and Kufr will continue till the last day. Shaitan is still allowed to roam around us working hard to take people away from the path of Allah.

Those who will remind themselves of where they came from and where they are going will perhaps take notice of the revelations sent by Allah instead of relying on the Ignorant scholars and politicians who have no insight in to the religion of Allah.

Umar ibn Abdul Aziz (radiyallahu anhu) narrated: "Taqwa is not fasting during the day and it is not praying during the night and it is not the mixing of the two of them, but taqwa is leaving what Allah has made haram (forbidden) and by doing what Allah has made fard. After one has done this, Allah will provide good things for that person."


"It is Allah Who gives life and death and Allah sees well all that you do." (Suratul Ali Imran 3:156)
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Blake
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2012 at 10:16am
Men are concerned with land ... and borders. God is concerned with the borders inside your heart. You really think in your heart that the God who created the universe and everything in it is concerned about a line drawn in the sand, that will make you happy?

men are concerned about conquering each other ... because they think small.
Go ahead.... see how well it has worked for everyone so far the last few thousand years.

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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2012 at 7:07pm
So i.dawa, by what you have posted...
 
it is ok when Muslims conquer and take land
 
but it is wrong when anybody else does it... 


Edited by Caringheart - 17 November 2012 at 7:10pm
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2012 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Caringheart




So i.dawa, by what you have posted...
 
it is ok when Muslims conquer and take land
 
but it is wrong when anybody else does it... 



Caringheart,
it is simpler than that. If you have a gun or a bigger gun, that does not give you right to go rob others with no or smaller gun than yours, nor does that give your the right to take control of someone' else's house and lock them up in their garage and don't let anything reach them, and then you take that house and occupy it shape it the way you want while the rightful owner is locked up beaten up and abused by you. And then you force the owner to sign their rights off that house.
It is that simple,
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 24 November 2012 at 4:57pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2012 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by honeto




Greetings Hasan,

Just wondering, did you read what i.dawa posted so that you may understand my comment?

Salaam,
CH
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 27 November 2012 at 1:48pm
Caringheart,
I read i.dawa's post. In the light of the facts, if Palestinians agree to 1967 borders, it will be a great gift to the Jews, a sign on their part that for peace they will sacrifice and agree to give away what was theirs.
But if they demand, they will be in their absolute right, to not give any part of there homeland and be given back all of their homeland, Palestine as it was before 1947.

If your grand father had an apartment complex which he owned and took care of. One day he get sick and was unable to keep his eyes on the property. Soon a group of people took over half of the complex with force. You father found out and start to take care of the rest of the complex and went to court to fight for the rest. Time passed the court took too much time and did not do much. At last your father got tired of the situation and agreed with the party occupying his father's property to gave them the rights to what they took by force as long as they will not try to take all the complex by force so they can be at peace.
Tell me what are your rights and options in that case?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 27 November 2012 at 2:44pm
Hasan,

Men have always gone to war for land.  Land has always been won and lost.  On that regard Blake has made a good post.

But you skip my whole point.  It is in the context of what I.dawa posted.

So I restate my question...
 
is it ok when Muslims conquer and take land
 
but wrong when anybody else does it...



Edited by Caringheart - 27 November 2012 at 2:47pm
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 27 November 2012 at 3:12pm
CAringheart,
Ok, I agree that man has gone to war and conquered or lost land.
Tell me in history who has set the best example after conquering a land, with its people and their rights, with the land itself: Jews?, Christians? or Muslims?
I still need answer to my question above, as I have answered to yours.
Also you will be OK if Muslims one day take back Palastine, you will be as supportive of them as you seem to Israelis today? We see in this world it only takes time, and things can happen!
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 27 November 2012 at 3:18pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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