IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Will Israel never stop?

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honeto

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Posted: 24 November 2012 at 4:41pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Just came across this quote while reading:"If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace
tomorrow. If the Israelis laid down their weapons, there would be no
Israel."It is sadly, but of a truth.More recommended reading;http://www.aish.com/jw/me/An_Open_Letter_to_Alice_Walker.htmlIf ye seek after truth.

Caringheart,
how that can be true. Palestinians do not have an Army or Air force and their is no Palestine. If there was a Palestine with its own Army that matched Israel's, I guarantee there will be peace. When there is equality or so there is peace. See how US and USSR now Russia have peace between them, because both have power and capability to destroy the other and that works as a balancing factor toward peaceful coexistence. The only other way to peace would be if there was no weapon, not a single one owned by any.

Anything forcefully imposed can only be kept by force, like the state of Israel was actually imposed by force on Palestine, and once you remove that imposing power, it will go back to be Palestine, not by force but just by removing force and impose.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 24 November 2012 at 4:48pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Caringheart

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Posted: 24 November 2012 at 4:55pm

Originally posted by honeto

Caringheart,
you wrote: "First I don't know that I agree that Israel is hostile."
That is the most arrogant political statement I have heard from you.
You need to spend a little bit time in reading the history going back to at least 1930 and inform yourself of some harsh truth of this matter. I am ashamed as an American that my tax Dollars go unconditionally to Israel to commit murder, atrocities, intimidation, apartheid and so on and to cover up those crimes.
You know it is important that we also be fair not just well informed. Only with those two we will have something good coming out of our mouth.
Hasan

Greetings Hasan, and welcome back. I trust you had safe travels.

Regarding your comment you need to read, if you can with an open mind, the links I have posted above.

Oh and try to read all of my posts. Smile

My whole point is to be informed... of both sides of the coin... so that we are fair in judgement.

Salaam,
CH

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honeto

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Posted: 24 November 2012 at 5:01pm

CAringheart,
Thank you, yes it was a great trip (All Praise to God), we drove as always and enjoyed it. Things have changed, otherwise we would like to go more often as we used to do.

I was talking about your comment: "First I don't know that I agree that Israel is hostile." that is nothing less than an arrogant comment if I may repeat. Why did you say that if you are well aware of what is going on?
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 24 November 2012 at 5:23pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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peacemaker
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Posted: 24 November 2012 at 10:11pm

Assalamu Alaikum/Peace be on you,

Here is an informative lecture by Miko Peled, the son of an Israeli general:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13

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Blake
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Posted: 24 November 2012 at 10:49pm

Originally posted by honeto

Greeting Honeto,

Well, but wait. You say Israels existence was imposed by force on Palestine..... but who determined the boundaries but the British at the turn of the century. I thought Palestine was simply something they made
up to keep their empire in order.

Before that Jerusalem was inhabited by people from all over the world... or so I remember from earlier reading... am I wrong about that?

There was no line seperating Jordan from what today is considereed Palestine. That was all made up by the brittish. So aren't the Jordanians basically the same people as the palestinians?

So the British made up the lines of Palestine, and what is Israael... and what was called the Trans- Jordan. But there was no real force I believe until the Jews were really forced to fight. The palestinians threw in their lot with the rest of the Arabs..... they probably got a little greedy as well,
or at least thought the Jews didnt stand much of a chance.

So they lost.... and from that point became an enemy of Israel..... and also remember that not all Jews in Israel are of European Ancestry ...
many of them were displaced from around the Middle East and actually have their rightful place in the area. Where else would those belong?

I think the Jews need to realize that the palestinians have their rightful place .... ( and many jews are fighting for plaestinian rights...note peace activist groups inside of Israel)
And likewise Gaza needs to recognize Jews are historically tied to that land. I'm not aware if Hammas has changed the wording in their founding charter .. but I know the original calls for the destruction of Israel openly.
Has that changed??

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Shaik Speare

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Posted: 25 November 2012 at 6:47am

Originally posted by Blake

Who.... Well as i nderstand it, it was 1947 after United nations partitioning resolution that all over the middle east in countries like Egypt Algeria Iraq etc.. Jews were imprisoned, their accounts frozen businesses confiscated,they were denied the rights to make a living in society and forced out one way or another. Is this wrong? And your sarcasm is well taken as well... but that's ok, I don't really care. I am sorry people are dying. But what I said is true, the peoples of the middle east have been doing just fine hurting each other without the Jews to blame.

The Jewish exodus from Arab/Muslim lands, both voluntary and involuntary, was essentially caused by the creation of Israel and the resulting dispossession of the Palestinians. Until then Jews lived in relative harmony in Arab/Muslim lands. Ironically the discrimination of Jews was convenient to the Zionist movement than it was possibly to the Arabs. Besides, there are Jews still living in Arab/Muslim lands. And is the notion of liberating Muslim women and children through Israeli hegemony any less sarcastic?

Edited by Shaik Speare - 25 November 2012 at 6:49am

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abuayisha

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Posted: 25 November 2012 at 6:55am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCQx47kN6tI

Edited by abuayisha - 25 November 2012 at 6:56am

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 25 November 2012 at 8:45am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Again... What would you want, or expect, your country to do if you were being threatened?

If you mean the Palestinians, I would expect them to fight back, just as they are doing. I wouldn't advise it in this case, but it is a natural and understandable response.

As for Israel, the Palestinians do not pose an existential threat to Israel in the way that Israel does to the Palestinians. In case you haven't noticed, there is no independent Palestinian state, and if Israel has their way there probably never will be. So who is really threatened?

An ipod is not a necessity of life.

Hasan has chosen to focus on another statement to indicate your arrogance, but IMHO this is the worst. You really do want to force the Palestinians back to the Stone Age, don't you?

No, an iPod is not a necessity. Neither are concrete and steel for making buildings. The Palestinians can live in mud huts with no air conditioning in the summer, and burn camel dung to keep warm in the winter. As long as they can work on the land that the Israelis stole -- sorry, "captured" -- from them, then that is "peace" according to you, eh?

Your forum name is becoming increasingly ironic.

And I love your plan if it would work. That approach worked with Germany after WWII when the world realized its mistake of not helping Germany to recover after WWI. It does not work with Muslims. They are offended by any assistance coming from what they see to be the infidel. They would rather die. So just as Blake says... there would be no appreciation, no building of good will, only more resentment. As I keep saying, this is the product of an evil ideology. One that promotes dissention among people rather than peace and love. It is the ideology that has to change... to be gotten rid of.

You're very close to the line here. If you want to continue to participate in this forum, I'd suggest that you choose your words more carefully.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Author	Message
honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 24 November 2012 at 4:41pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Just came across this quote while reading:"If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace tomorrow. If the Israelis laid down their weapons, there would be no Israel."It is sadly, but of a truth.More recommended reading;http://www.aish.com/jw/me/An_Open_Letter_to_Alice_Walker.htmlIf ye seek after truth. Caringheart, how that can be true. Palestinians do not have an Army or Air force and their is no Palestine. If there was a Palestine with its own Army that matched Israel's, I guarantee there will be peace. When there is equality or so there is peace. See how US and USSR now Russia have peace between them, because both have power and capability to destroy the other and that works as a balancing factor toward peaceful coexistence. The only other way to peace would be if there was no weapon, not a single one owned by any. Anything forcefully imposed can only be kept by force, like the state of Israel was actually imposed by force on Palestine, and once you remove that imposing power, it will go back to be Palestine, not by force but just by removing force and impose. Hasan Edited by honeto - 24 November 2012 at 4:48pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 24 November 2012 at 4:55pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* Caringheart, you wrote: "First I don't know that I agree that Israel is hostile." That is the most arrogant political statement I have heard from you. You need to spend a little bit time in reading the history going back to at least 1930 and inform yourself of some harsh truth of this matter. I am ashamed as an American that my tax Dollars go unconditionally to Israel to commit murder, atrocities, intimidation, apartheid and so on and to cover up those crimes. You know it is important that we also be fair not just well informed. Only with those two we will have something good coming out of our mouth. Hasan Greetings Hasan, and welcome back. I trust you had safe travels. Regarding your comment you need to read, if you can with an open mind, the links I have posted above. Oh and try to read all of my posts. My whole point is to be informed... of both sides of the coin... so that we are fair in judgement. Salaam, CH
	IP Logged

honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 24 November 2012 at 5:01pm
	CAringheart, Thank you, yes it was a great trip (All Praise to God), we drove as always and enjoyed it. Things have changed, otherwise we would like to go more often as we used to do. I was talking about your comment: "First I don't know that I agree that Israel is hostile." that is nothing less than an arrogant comment if I may repeat. Why did you say that if you are well aware of what is going on? Hasan Edited by honeto - 24 November 2012 at 5:23pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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peacemaker Male Islam Moderator Group Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 3056	Posted: 24 November 2012 at 10:11pm
	Assalamu Alaikum/Peace be on you, Here is an informative lecture by Miko Peled, the son of an Israeli general: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ
	Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13
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Blake Male Newbie Joined: 12 September 2012 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 36	Posted: 24 November 2012 at 10:49pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* *Originally posted by Caringheart* Just came across this quote while reading:"If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace tomorrow. If the Israelis laid down their weapons, there would be no Israel."It is sadly, but of a truth.More recommended reading;http://www.aish.com/jw/me/An_Open_Letter_to_Alice_Walker.htmlIf ye seek after truth. Caringheart, how that can be true. Palestinians do not have an Army or Air force and their is no Palestine. If there was a Palestine with its own Army that matched Israel's, I guarantee there will be peace. When there is equality or so there is peace. See how US and USSR now Russia have peace between them, because both have power and capability to destroy the other and that works as a balancing factor toward peaceful coexistence. The only other way to peace would be if there was no weapon, not a single one owned by any. Anything forcefully imposed can only be kept by force, like the state of Israel was actually imposed by force on Palestine, and once you remove that imposing power, it will go back to be Palestine, not by force but just by removing force and impose. Hasan Greeting Honeto, Well, but wait. You say Israels existence was imposed by force on Palestine..... but who determined the boundaries but the British at the turn of the century. I thought Palestine was simply something they made up to keep their empire in order. Before that Jerusalem was inhabited by people from all over the world... or so I remember from earlier reading... am I wrong about that? There was no line seperating Jordan from what today is considereed Palestine. That was all made up by the brittish. So aren't the Jordanians basically the same people as the palestinians? So the British made up the lines of Palestine, and what is Israael... and what was called the Trans- Jordan. But there was no real force I believe until the Jews were really forced to fight. The palestinians threw in their lot with the rest of the Arabs..... they probably got a little greedy as well, or at least thought the Jews didnt stand much of a chance. So they lost.... and from that point became an enemy of Israel..... and also remember that not all Jews in Israel are of European Ancestry ... many of them were displaced from around the Middle East and actually have their rightful place in the area. Where else would those belong? I think the Jews need to realize that the palestinians have their rightful place .... ( and many jews are fighting for plaestinian rights...note peace activist groups inside of Israel) And likewise Gaza needs to recognize Jews are historically tied to that land. I'm not aware if Hammas has changed the wording in their founding charter .. but I know the original calls for the destruction of Israel openly. Has that changed??
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Shaik Speare Newbie Joined: 16 July 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 25 November 2012 at 6:47am
	*Originally posted by Blake* Who.... Well as i nderstand it, it was 1947 after United nations partitioning resolution that all over the middle east in countries like Egypt Algeria Iraq etc.. Jews were imprisoned, their accounts frozen businesses confiscated,they were denied the rights to make a living in society and forced out one way or another. Is this wrong? And your sarcasm is well taken as well... but that's ok, I don't really care. I am sorry people are dying. But what I said is true, the peoples of the middle east have been doing just fine hurting each other without the Jews to blame. The Jewish exodus from Arab/Muslim lands, both voluntary and involuntary, was essentially caused by the creation of Israel and the resulting dispossession of the Palestinians. Until then Jews lived in relative harmony in Arab/Muslim lands. Ironically the discrimination of Jews was convenient to the Zionist movement than it was possibly to the Arabs. Besides, there are Jews still living in Arab/Muslim lands. And is the notion of liberating Muslim women and children through Israeli hegemony any less sarcastic? Edited by Shaik Speare - 25 November 2012 at 6:49am
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abuayisha Senior Member Joined: 05 October 1999 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3997	Posted: 25 November 2012 at 6:55am
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCQx47kN6tI Edited by abuayisha - 25 November 2012 at 6:56am
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 25 November 2012 at 8:45am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Again... What would you want, or expect, your country to do if you were being threatened? If you mean the Palestinians, I would expect them to fight back, just as they are doing. I wouldn't advise it in this case, but it is a natural and understandable response. As for Israel, the Palestinians do not pose an existential threat to Israel in the way that Israel does to the Palestinians. In case you haven't noticed, there is no independent Palestinian state, and if Israel has their way there probably never will be. So who is really threatened? An ipod is not a necessity of life. Hasan has chosen to focus on another statement to indicate your arrogance, but IMHO this is the worst. You really do want to force the Palestinians back to the Stone Age, don't you? No, an iPod is not a necessity. Neither are concrete and steel for making buildings. The Palestinians can live in mud huts with no air conditioning in the summer, and burn camel dung to keep warm in the winter. As long as they can work on the land that the Israelis stole -- sorry, "captured" -- from them, then that is "peace" according to you, eh? Your forum name is becoming increasingly ironic. And I love your plan if it would work. That approach worked with Germany after WWII when the world realized its mistake of not helping Germany to recover after WWI. It does not work with Muslims. They are offended by any assistance coming from what they see to be the infidel. They would rather die. So just as Blake says... there would be no appreciation, no building of good will, only more resentment. As I keep saying, this is the product of an evil ideology. One that promotes dissention among people rather than peace and love. It is the ideology that has to change... to be gotten rid of. You're very close to the line here. If you want to continue to participate in this forum, I'd suggest that you choose your words more carefully.
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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