IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Will Israel never stop?

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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:37pm

I have to agree again with all that Blake has said... particularly that it is important to separate the people from the leadership... that Palestine has largely been hijacked from the people by Hamas.
and that no one wants to see the death and dying on either side... the impossibility to have a life when rockets are always falling from the sky and interfering with your days and your nights. This is a ridiculous way for people to live.
But it must be recognized that one side is defending itself while the other side refuses to desist in warfare. How can you put an end to conflict when one side refuses to give up their hostility towards the other? When one side does not seek to put an end to it.

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Shaik Speare

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:56pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Shaik Speare

And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple.

Greetings Shaik Speare, (interesting name [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />)Are they really?or are they unnecessarily prolonging a conflict?If they wanted to self preserve they would end the fighting, end the attacks, earn trust, and end the conflict.salaam,CH

Greetings and salaam! The same applies to the Israelis. You can't expect to stop Gazan rocket fire as long as Israel lays an embargo and kills them. 271 Gazans have been killed by the IDF since the end of Cast Lead upto October 2012. Another one killed today, which according to the BBC is common even in a truce.

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Shaik Speare

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 1:01pm

^And in that period ZERO Israelis were killed by Gazan rockets.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 1:28pm

Originally posted by Shaik Speare

^And in that period ZERO Israelis were killed by Gazan rockets.

Only because Israel has good defense, certainly not for lack of trying. Gaza has launched many more rockets towards Israel than Israel has responded with in return.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 1:32pm

Originally posted by Shaik Speare

Greetings and salaam! The same applies to the Israelis. You can't expect to stop Gazan rocket fire as long as Israel lays an embargo and kills them. 271 Gazans have been killed by the IDF since the end of Cast Lead upto October 2012. Another one killed today, which according to the BBC is common even in a truce.

Greetings again, Shaik Speare,

Do you understand why there is an embargo? Because I do. Israel is under constant threat from the region. It seeks to protect itself by not allowing more arms into the area.

A question...
Does anyone know of a reason that Egypt blockaded Israel in the past?
What was their justification? Did they have any just reason?

Israel has a just cause. When Israel can feel safe it will no longer have need of embargo's.

As far as killing... it only happens in response to constant attacks from Gaza.

Salaam,
CH

[note: "In 1955 alone, 260 Israeli citizens were killed or wounded by fedayeen."
http://www.adl.org/israel/record/sinai.asp
It's not like this has not gone both ways.]

Edited by Caringheart - 23 November 2012 at 1:35pm

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Shaik Speare

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 2:19pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

I have to agree again with all that Blake has said... particularly that it is important to separate the people from the leadership... that Palestine has largely been hijacked from the people by Hamas.and that no one wants to see the death and dying on either side... the impossibility to have a life when rockets are always falling from the sky and interfering with your days and your nights. This is a ridiculous way for people to live.But it must be recognized that one side is defending itself while the other side refuses to desist in warfare. How can you put an end to conflict when one side refuses to give up their hostility towards the other? When one side does not seek to put an end to it.

That Hamas hijacked Palestine from its people is a moot point. They were democratically elected by their people and they have said on various occasions that they will peacefully accept a Palestinian state with pre-1967 borders. But the Israeli government is phobic of accepting a Palestinian state as indicated by an internal report by D.J. Schneeweiss of Israel's foreign ministry and another document proposing to topple Mahmoud Abbas if Palestine's bid for UN non-member status is approved. And why did Israel assassinate Ahmed Jabari who according to Israeli negotiator Gershon Baskin was carrying the draft of a long term ceasefire proposal when he was killed? And talk of the impossibility of living in Israel (lol), when they give the Palestinians much worse.

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Shaik Speare

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 2:43pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Shaik Speare

^And in that period ZERO Israelis were killed by Gazan rockets.

Only because Israel has good defense, certainly not for lack of trying. Gaza has launched many more rockets towards Israel than Israel has responded with in return.

And yet that good defense is supplemented by murderous offense, as the count of fatalities show.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 4:11pm

Originally posted by Blake

I thought I had agreed with this one point before.... Yeah your right, the strikes will hurt Israel in relations with world opinion and negotiations ( in my opinion). At the same time ... I can understand why they are doing what they are doing.....

So can I. I can also understand why the Palestinians are doing what they are doing. But it's still wrong, both morally and pragmatically.

... but I can't REALLY understand because I'm not in their shoes..... or the shoes of the palestinians for that matter because there is a definate line between the average person there and HAmmas who have hijacked the country.

Hijacked? They won in a fair election, didn't they? Do you really think that they don't represent the majority of Palestinians?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Author	Message
Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:37pm
	I have to agree again with all that Blake has said... particularly that it is important to separate the people from the leadership... that Palestine has largely been hijacked from the people by Hamas. and that no one wants to see the death and dying on either side... the impossibility to have a life when rockets are always falling from the sky and interfering with your days and your nights. This is a ridiculous way for people to live. But it must be recognized that one side is defending itself while the other side refuses to desist in warfare. How can you put an end to conflict when one side refuses to give up their hostility towards the other? When one side does not seek to put an end to it.
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Shaik Speare Newbie Joined: 16 July 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:56pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Shaik Speare* And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple. Greetings Shaik Speare, (interesting name [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />)Are they really?or are they unnecessarily prolonging a conflict?If they wanted to self preserve they would end the fighting, end the attacks, earn trust, and end the conflict.salaam,CH Greetings and salaam! The same applies to the Israelis. You can't expect to stop Gazan rocket fire as long as Israel lays an embargo and kills them. 271 Gazans have been killed by the IDF since the end of Cast Lead upto October 2012. Another one killed today, which according to the BBC is common even in a truce.
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Shaik Speare Newbie Joined: 16 July 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 1:01pm
	^And in that period ZERO Israelis were killed by Gazan rockets.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 1:28pm
	*Originally posted by Shaik Speare* ^And in that period ZERO Israelis were killed by Gazan rockets. Only because Israel has good defense, certainly not for lack of trying. Gaza has launched many more rockets towards Israel than Israel has responded with in return.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 1:32pm
	*Originally posted by Shaik Speare* Greetings and salaam! The same applies to the Israelis. You can't expect to stop Gazan rocket fire as long as Israel lays an embargo and kills them. 271 Gazans have been killed by the IDF since the end of Cast Lead upto October 2012. Another one killed today, which according to the BBC is common even in a truce. Greetings again, Shaik Speare, Do you understand why there is an embargo? Because I do. Israel is under constant threat from the region. It seeks to protect itself by not allowing more arms into the area. A question... Does anyone know of a reason that Egypt blockaded Israel in the past? What was their justification? Did they have any just reason? Israel has a just cause. When Israel can feel safe it will no longer have need of embargo's. As far as killing... it only happens in response to constant attacks from Gaza. Salaam, CH [note: "In 1955 alone, 260 Israeli citizens were killed or wounded by fedayeen." http://www.adl.org/israel/record/sinai.asp It's not like this has not gone both ways.] Edited by Caringheart - 23 November 2012 at 1:35pm
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Shaik Speare Newbie Joined: 16 July 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 2:19pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* I have to agree again with all that Blake has said... particularly that it is important to separate the people from the leadership... that Palestine has largely been hijacked from the people by Hamas.and that no one wants to see the death and dying on either side... the impossibility to have a life when rockets are always falling from the sky and interfering with your days and your nights. This is a ridiculous way for people to live.But it must be recognized that one side is defending itself while the other side refuses to desist in warfare. How can you put an end to conflict when one side refuses to give up their hostility towards the other? When one side does not seek to put an end to it. That Hamas hijacked Palestine from its people is a moot point. They were democratically elected by their people and they have said on various occasions that they will peacefully accept a Palestinian state with pre-1967 borders. But the Israeli government is phobic of accepting a Palestinian state as indicated by an internal report by D.J. Schneeweiss of Israel's foreign ministry and another document proposing to topple Mahmoud Abbas if Palestine's bid for UN non-member status is approved. And why did Israel assassinate Ahmed Jabari who according to Israeli negotiator Gershon Baskin was carrying the draft of a long term ceasefire proposal when he was killed? And talk of the impossibility of living in Israel (lol), when they give the Palestinians much worse.
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Shaik Speare Newbie Joined: 16 July 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 2:43pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Shaik Speare* ^And in that period ZERO Israelis were killed by Gazan rockets. Only because Israel has good defense, certainly not for lack of trying. Gaza has launched many more rockets towards Israel than Israel has responded with in return. And yet that good defense is supplemented by murderous offense, as the count of fatalities show.
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1401	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 4:11pm
	*Originally posted by Blake* I thought I had agreed with this one point before.... Yeah your right, the strikes will hurt Israel in relations with world opinion and negotiations ( in my opinion). At the same time ... I can understand why they are doing what they are doing..... So can I. I can also understand why the Palestinians are doing what they are doing. But it's still wrong, both morally and pragmatically. ... but I can't REALLY understand because I'm not in their shoes..... or the shoes of the palestinians for that matter because there is a definate line between the average person there and HAmmas who have hijacked the country. Hijacked? They won in a fair election, didn't they? Do you really think that they don't represent the majority of Palestinians?
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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