IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Will Israel never stop?

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Shaik Speare

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 11:57am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Israel took them by force, and refused to give them back

And why did they do this?Simple; self preservation.It is every human's instinct to preserve oneself.

And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple.

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Blake
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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:06pm

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by Blake

Unfortunately there is a one way bais in news reporting and it is actually hurting the Palestinians in the end of it all.

The reality is that the situation is asymmetric: there is far more death and destruction on the Gaza side. Do you want the media to report that reality, or would you rather have some make-believe fantasy story that suits your ideology?

True as you say, very few Israelis have died... mostly because they have an early warning system, shelters and are not as densly packed in. And on the Palestinian side they have civilians right next to Rocket batterys and headquarters. Its not that Israel is targeting civilians, but it is portrayed as so

Nobody (at least nobody credible) is saying otherwise. That doesn't change the body counts.

But as Caring Heart says.... yeah, if someone was shooting a gun at your house every day..... and only occasionaly wounded one of your family members,
it would be very likely that you would take some action based on the psycological effect, that may even be disproportionate.

Maybe so. But it would be morally wrong, and pragmatically counterproductive. Let me ask again: do you think that bombing and/or invading Gaza will help or hurt Israel in the long run?

I thought I had agreed with this one point before.... Yeah your right, the strikes will hurt Israel in relations with world opinion and negotiations ( in my opinion). At the same time ... I can understand why they are doing what they are doing..... but I can't REALLY understand because I'm not in their shoes..... or the shoes of the palestinians for that matter because there is a definate line between the average person there and HAmmas who have hijacked the country.

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Blake
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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:20pm

Originally posted by Ron Webb

This is very simple. The Gaza Strip, the West Bank and the Golan Heights did not belong to Israel. They were always intended to be Arab, according to the original UN Partition Plan. Israel took them by force, and refused to give them back despite repeated UN Resolutions demanding that they do so.

All that other stuff you mentioned is true. Like I keep saying, there is plenty of blame to go around here, and I'm not by any means suggesting that the Palestinians are entirely innocent victims. But Israel stole the occupied territories. That is a fact, and no amount of whinging about Arab aggression can change it.

Yeah Ron.... but you have to understand at that point it haddnt been so long since the Jews had recently escapeed the ovens.

What if you were the Israeli leadership? And you had the Responsibility of protecting your citizens. The Arabs who were surrounding you... who you just had a war with.. shared the philosophy of Adolph Hitler regarding your
existence.

The Golan Hights is a very militarily strategic location threatening your country .... why would you give that to people who would be firing missiles at you as they have been in Gaza?
And your country is very small.... If you get over run thats probbably IT for you and your people in a matter of days. Your marging for error is very small... the difference is extinction or survival.
And that responsibility you have to think about each night as you go to bed.

The thing is, Israelis are not trying to eliminate the Palestinians..... but there are many Arabs throughout the region who want to eliminate The Jews completely.

This is the main reason I can't see Israel as being a terrorist state..... they are fighting for survival.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:23pm

Originally posted by Blake

I guarantee if Syria was firing rockets into Turkey every day for 8 months or so ... they would do something about it. Any other country in the world would.

Well, and actually, this scenario has already played out, hasn't it? Turkey did retaliate for rockets that landed over the border from Syria, and that put an end to it rather quickly too, didn't it. There was a whole lot being said about the Syrian rockets that... as I saw it... 'went astray'. I never was able to confirm if it was deliberate or accidental. I originally thought that a Syrian rocket had simply gone astray and that Turkey over reacted, but not so sure now.

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Blake
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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:24pm

Originally posted by Shaik Speare

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Israel took them by force, and refused to give them back

And why did they do this?Simple; self preservation.It is every human's instinct to preserve oneself.

And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple.

Yeah Sheik....... then when there is a cease fire..... they have to desisit in sending misslies.... work on improving there lives .... if they show the Israelis they want to live next to them .... everything will start to get better. When the threat is gone... the Israelis will eventually give more.

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Blake
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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:26pm

Originally posted by Shaik Speare

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Israel took them by force, and refused to give them back

And why did they do this?Simple; self preservation.It is every human's instinct to preserve oneself.

And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple.

I dont like the Palestinian Children dying either... no one here does, how can anyone?

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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:28pm

Originally posted by Shaik Speare

And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple.

Greetings Shaik Speare, (interesting name Smile

)

Are they really?
or are they unnecessarily prolonging a conflict?
If they wanted to self preserve they would end the fighting, end the attacks, earn trust, and end the conflict.

salaam,
CH

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Shaik Speare

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Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:33pm

Originally posted by Blake

The Muslims in the region have to realize if Israel did not exist..... women and children would still be suffering. It's the most conveinient thing to focus internal anger upon. They will just move on to the next thing.

Your concern for Muslim women and children is very touching. Israel must exist, if not as the Jewish homeland, atleast to protect the poor Mooslim women and children. It's acceptable if thousands of women and children are killed in the process; it's for the greater good.

Originally posted by Blake

There was a time when Jews lived through out North africa and the Arab Peninsula.. in countries like Yemen for example. They were driven out and off their land. Who took their land??

Who??

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Author	Message
Shaik Speare Newbie Joined: 16 July 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 11:57am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Ron Webb* Israel took them by force, and refused to give them back And why did they do this?Simple; self preservation.It is every human's instinct to preserve oneself. And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple.
	IP Logged

Blake Male Newbie Joined: 12 September 2012 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 36	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:06pm
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* *Originally posted by Blake* Unfortunately there is a one way bais in news reporting and it is actually hurting the Palestinians in the end of it all. The reality is that the situation is asymmetric: there is far more death and destruction on the Gaza side. Do you want the media to report that reality, or would you rather have some make-believe fantasy story that suits your ideology? True as you say, very few Israelis have died... mostly because they have an early warning system, shelters and are not as densly packed in. And on the Palestinian side they have civilians right next to Rocket batterys and headquarters. Its not that Israel is targeting civilians, but it is portrayed as so Nobody (at least nobody credible) is saying otherwise. That doesn't change the body counts. But as Caring Heart says.... yeah, if someone was shooting a gun at your house every day..... and only occasionaly wounded one of your family members, it would be very likely that you would take some action based on the psycological effect, that may even be disproportionate. Maybe so. But it would be morally wrong, and pragmatically counterproductive. Let me ask again: do you think that bombing and/or invading Gaza will help or hurt Israel in the long run? I thought I had agreed with this one point before.... Yeah your right, the strikes will hurt Israel in relations with world opinion and negotiations ( in my opinion). At the same time ... I can understand why they are doing what they are doing..... but I can't REALLY understand because I'm not in their shoes..... or the shoes of the palestinians for that matter because there is a definate line between the average person there and HAmmas who have hijacked the country.
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Blake Male Newbie Joined: 12 September 2012 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 36	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:20pm
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* This is very simple. The Gaza Strip, the West Bank and the Golan Heights did not belong to Israel. They were always intended to be Arab, according to the original UN Partition Plan. Israel took them by force, and refused to give them back despite repeated UN Resolutions demanding that they do so. All that other stuff you mentioned is true. Like I keep saying, there is plenty of blame to go around here, and I'm not by any means suggesting that the Palestinians are entirely innocent victims. But Israel stole the occupied territories. That is a fact, and no amount of whinging about Arab aggression can change it. Yeah Ron.... but you have to understand at that point it haddnt been so long since the Jews had recently escapeed the ovens. What if you were the Israeli leadership? And you had the Responsibility of protecting your citizens. The Arabs who were surrounding you... who you just had a war with.. shared the philosophy of Adolph Hitler regarding your existence. The Golan Hights is a very militarily strategic location threatening your country .... why would you give that to people who would be firing missiles at you as they have been in Gaza? And your country is very small.... If you get over run thats probbably IT for you and your people in a matter of days. Your marging for error is very small... the difference is extinction or survival. And that responsibility you have to think about each night as you go to bed. The thing is, Israelis are not trying to eliminate the Palestinians..... but there are many Arabs throughout the region who want to eliminate The Jews completely. This is the main reason I can't see Israel as being a terrorist state..... they are fighting for survival.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:23pm
	*Originally posted by Blake* I guarantee if Syria was firing rockets into Turkey every day for 8 months or so ... they would do something about it. Any other country in the world would. Well, and actually, this scenario has already played out, hasn't it? Turkey did retaliate for rockets that landed over the border from Syria, and that put an end to it rather quickly too, didn't it. There was a whole lot being said about the Syrian rockets that... as I saw it... 'went astray'. I never was able to confirm if it was deliberate or accidental. I originally thought that a Syrian rocket had simply gone astray and that Turkey over reacted, but not so sure now.
	IP Logged

Blake Male Newbie Joined: 12 September 2012 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 36	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:24pm
	*Originally posted by Shaik Speare* *Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Ron Webb* Israel took them by force, and refused to give them back And why did they do this?Simple; self preservation.It is every human's instinct to preserve oneself. And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple. Yeah Sheik....... then when there is a cease fire..... they have to desisit in sending misslies.... work on improving there lives .... if they show the Israelis they want to live next to them .... everything will start to get better. When the threat is gone... the Israelis will eventually give more.
	IP Logged

Blake Male Newbie Joined: 12 September 2012 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 36	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:26pm
	*Originally posted by Shaik Speare* *Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Ron Webb* Israel took them by force, and refused to give them back And why did they do this?Simple; self preservation.It is every human's instinct to preserve oneself. And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple. I dont like the Palestinian Children dying either... no one here does, how can anyone?
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:28pm
	*Originally posted by Shaik Speare* And the Palestinians are trying to do just that; simple. Greetings Shaik Speare, (interesting name ) Are they really? or are they unnecessarily prolonging a conflict? If they wanted to self preserve they would end the fighting, end the attacks, earn trust, and end the conflict. salaam, CH
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Shaik Speare Newbie Joined: 16 July 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:33pm
	*Originally posted by Blake* The Muslims in the region have to realize if Israel did not exist..... women and children would still be suffering. It's the most conveinient thing to focus internal anger upon. They will just move on to the next thing. Your concern for Muslim women and children is very touching. Israel must exist, if not as the Jewish homeland, atleast to protect the poor Mooslim women and children. It's acceptable if thousands of women and children are killed in the process; it's for the greater good. *Originally posted by Blake* There was a time when Jews lived through out North africa and the Arab Peninsula.. in countries like Yemen for example. They were driven out and off their land. Who took their land?? Who??
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