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Message Icon Topic: Will Israel never stop? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Blake
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2012 at 10:08am
The Muslims in the region have to realize if Israel did not exist.....   women and children would still be suffering. It's the most conveinient thing to focus internal anger upon. They will just move on to the next thing. There was a time when Jews lived through out North africa and the Arab Peninsula.. in countries like Yemen for example.
 They were driven out and off their land. Who took their land?? Ahhhh..
but their just jews so it dosn't matter much to people today,  yet that was not good enough.  So there are still Jews in the middle east? If they are driven out completely, then it will be the christians who are the next problem.

I don't understand actually if there is so much concern for the Palestinians, that they cannot receive Economic aid and trade opportunities through Egypt, as they border Gaza... and likewise Jordan borders the west bank. Why are'nt they helping each other if they really are so concerned? or is the focus really just to eliminate Israel off the map ?
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2012 at 10:17am
Blake,
it is true that muslims have internal divisions but that is nothing new as a mater of fact history tells us that all people have internal conflicts.
But you know that Muslim divisions that we see today, at least most of them were actually crafted by the West to neutralize them so they could be kept busy fighting each other so their colonization could succeed.
Jews have always lived and prospered throughout the Islamic lands moving in and out freely, many still living in Iran, and central Asian countries.
What we are seeing recently in Muslim countries is intolerance which is not an Islamic teaching rather it is planted by enemies of Islam who are worried that Islam in it's purity has certain potential of taking over the world again as majority of people are beginning to base their belief in knowledge, logic and reasoning. And Islam has been wining with that criteria practiced by any giving it a chance.
The world has witnessed unmatched tolerance under Islamic leadership, when Islam was practiced and applied. Most of today's intolerance is engineered in Western, Mossad and RAW Intelligence Labs and applied in Muslim countries through installed rebel (in most cases extremist)groups and leaders. They must be proud to see the results as we see what is going on these days over there.
May Allah guide us all to do good.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 18 November 2012 at 10:50am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2012 at 11:30am
Originally posted by Blake

The people whoever they are firing the rockets know very well what they are doing.  They started the barrage and will not stop, knowing that Israel would eventually retaliate and they also know that if they continue it will create a wider conflict, probably with Israel invading again.
 And they had been told if they continue to fire rockets retaliation will come.
  As densly populated as Gaza is, there is no way to prevent civilian casualties. Does anyone here actually believe the people firing the rockets actually care about the palestinian civilians who will die?

I don't believe it one bit no matter how many photos they will show in the papers of innocents killed because those people sending rockets are consumed by their own hate and dream of creating a wider conflict drawing in surrounding countries. Of course, blame it all on Israeli agression.
 
Exactly. 
 
They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, each time expecting a different result.  Well, those firing the rockets are not insane.  They know perfectly what they are doing.  They are not defending Palestine.  If they were, they would have noticed by now that they are only making things worse for Palestinians.
 
And on the Israeli side things are similar.  Surely they must have noticed by now that retaliation is not a long-term solution.  The only long-term "solution" would be total annihilation of the Palestinians, but they know (I think they know, anyway) that the world community would not allow it.  Even the Americans would withdraw their support.
 
So what's the goal?  On the Palestinian side, jihad is an end in itself.  Fighting and dying in the cause of Allah (as they define it) is their ticket to Paradise.  Plus, by provoking the Israelis to kill Palestinians, they can cast themselves as victims of Israeli aggression and gain financial and other support from individual Muslims and Muslim-majority countries.
 
The Israelis I don't understand as well, but I can only assume it is pure hatred.  I also suspect that American weapons manufacturers have something to do with it.  They have a clear interest in maintaining a strong demand for their wares.
 
Either side could end this conflict -- not right away, but eventually -- simply by refusing to retaliate.  Yes, many on their own side will die -- but even more will die if they retaliate, as surely they must know by now.  And eventually the aggressors will lose all support as the world community squarely aligns itself with the non-aggressive side.   They too will realize that continued aggression gains them nothing and costs them greatly.
 
Quite simply, the solution to war is peace.  But neither side wants peace.
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Blake
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2012 at 8:21pm
I would agree that western civilization is guilty of many things, through it's colonization and through out it's history western civilizations have battled each other ruthlessly as well. But also just as others have.

What your saying though is that these middle eastern nations don't except responsibility for treating each other badly.  Passing the blame on to someone else is a great way to cope with it. For sure there are power grabs like the Saudi Families but even in that example....  they are the ones who own the blame. Not their trading partners. And in that conversation.... if not for the developpment of oil for fuel by the west a hundred years ago....  what great prospect for wealth would those nations have? I'm sure your familiar with the Chinese YIN and Yang. You must count your blessings along side your criticizms because though two sides of a coin my look extremely different, they are actually part of ONE and the distance between the two is actually very short.

I think your putting the west in an entire negative focus ...while I'm not aware of any recent colonies in the muslim lands, we have dumped billions of dollars into the land of Islam in oil purchases, learning and technology has been increased throughout all the region for anyone who wants it due to advancements from the west. I believe resources have been increased so much but it has been mainly tribal biases that have caused so many inequities.
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Blake
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2012 at 8:31pm
Ron , I agree with a lot of what you say,  but how long now have missiles been fired into Israel? Even if tel aviv was reduced to rubble by rockets.
I don't see any European Country wanting to get involved. Some one is going to stop them from firing rockets?  realistically ..WHO?

how would someone stop them? by invading Gaza? by asking them politely to stop? No one would ever invade Gaza except Israel because they are the ones getting bombed. There can never be a blockade because Islamic countries will always support the shelling of Israel. They could take it for ten years without responding and the shelling would never stop, because no one in that region wants Jews there.

Unfortunantly the Jews will have to retaliate just to limit the ability of the Palesinians to be able to shell them. I don't think this is good either... and I don't know what the real answer is... I wish I did. The whole thing over there just botheres me a lot.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2012 at 11:09am

it is true that muslims have internal divisions but that is nothing new as a mater of fact history tells us that all people have internal conflicts.
But you know that Muslim divisions that we see today, at least most of them were actually crafted by the West to neutralize them so they could be kept busy fighting each other so their colonization could succeed.
Jews have always lived and prospered throughout the Islamic lands moving in and out freely, many still living in Iran, and central Asian countries.
What we are seeing recently in Muslim countries is intolerance which is not an Islamic teaching rather it is planted by enemies of Islam who are worried that Islam in it's purity has certain potential of taking over the world again as majority of people are beginning to base their belief in knowledge, logic and reasoning. And Islam has been wining with that criteria practiced by any giving it a chance.
The world has witnessed unmatched tolerance under Islamic leadership, when Islam was practiced and applied. Most of today's intolerance is engineered in Western, Mossad and RAW Intelligence Labs and applied in Muslim countries through installed rebel (in most cases extremist)groups and leaders. They must be proud to see the results as we see what is going on these days over there.
May Allah guide us all to do good.
Hasan

I recommend reading:
http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/others/blessjews.htm

Two views


Edited by Caringheart - 19 November 2012 at 11:10am
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2012 at 6:51pm

Originally posted by Blake

I think your putting the west in an entire negative focus ...

My intention is to put both sides in a negative focus.  There is plenty of blame to go around here.

Originally posted by Blake

Ron , I agree with a lot of what you say,  but how long now have missiles been fired into Israel?

I honestly don't know.  About as long as Israel has existed, I suppose.  And how long has Israel mistreated the Palestinians?  About as long.

Even if tel aviv was reduced to rubble by rockets.

Not even close.   Have a look at Wikipedia's table comparing the deaths on both sides in recent history (and note that the data comes from Jewish sources).  Since 1987, there have been more than five Palestinians killed for every Israeli; and in the past decade the ratio is more like ten to one.

So don't talk about Tel Aviv being reduced to rubble.  Gaza will be rubble long before then.

I don't see any European Country wanting to get involved.  Some one is going to stop them from firing rockets?  realistically ..WHO?

Who stopped South Africa from maintaining its apartheid policies?  Nobody; but it wasn't necessary.  South Africans just got tired of being a pariah nation.  And so would Palestine, eventually, once it becomes crystal clear that they are the aggressors.

One thing is obvious: the Israelis aren't gonna stop them.  Decades of history have demonstrated that.  On the contrary, bombing Palestine only increases Israeli casualties.

Unfortunantly the Jews will have to retaliate just to limit the ability of the Palesinians to be able to shell them.

Okay, how about this?  The Jews can consider retaliating after Israeli casualties begin to approach the Palestinian level over the last decade or so.

Or here's an even better idea.  How about actually treating the Palestinians like human beings?  They've tried bombing and blockading and invading and stealing their territory -- and oddly enough, that hasn't made the Palestinians any less hostile.  Like I said, it's the definition of insanity to keep doing the same things over and constantly expect a different result.  If you want a different outcome, try something different.



Edited by Ron Webb - 19 November 2012 at 6:58pm
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Blake
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2012 at 10:05pm

First I just want to say I'm saddened by all the deaths we see today just like everyone else, and I hope they can come to a solution before any invasion happens.

But Ron, Israel mistreating Palestinians , gives license to fire missiles into Israel without retaliation? 

I would also say the Palestinians have been mistreated by the Iranians who are using them in their Proxy war. Instead they could have been helping the Palestinians acheive economic prosperity with the same efforts.... teaching them to live in peace and prosperity which is what Islam is supposed to be all about.

But that is one of the last things on many minds in the region who have the means to make a difference for the Palestinians in a positive way.

When I'm talking about Tel Aviv being reduced to Rubble... I'm not beingg serious,... that's the point. That's how long it would take for anyone to stop the Palestinians from sending over their rockets. Basically never I think.........
as long as Iran keeps giving them their steady supply.

So....  why is it that Israel turned over the Gaza to the Palestinians in the first place?  They WERE trying to treat them like human beings.... I think.
But what they got in return almost immediately was rocket fire back into Israel. If the Israeli gesture of land for peace had been met with open arms... then you would by now have seen further progress. I'm sure many restrictions on Palestinians would have been lifted by now as they learned to trust each other. But that is a two way street.

I think the problem is you got some Palestinians who truely want a Palestinian State and to exist in peace with Israel. Then you got the Palestinians who are aligned with Iran who want a Religious Caliphate including the ground under the Israelis AT ANY COST including their own.

See, not much has changed since Adolf Hitler visited Jerusalem in 1938 to strenghen his Alliance with the Arabs against the Jews. The Jews were being exterminated from both ends..... is it any wonder the Israelis have the mind set they do? If they don't defend themselves they will no longer exist.






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