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lady
 
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Quote lady Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 3:37am
Sorry, Matt, I meant to say that the way other people see you  is the same way I see you as well.Smile  Maybe you dont mean to come off as arrogant as we perceive you to be.
But like I said, who am I to judge you?
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 5:42am
Assalamu alaikum.

There is no where in the life history of Muhammad Rasulullah where women are treated in the manner the so called Wahabis are advocating. Whatever Muhammad says is to give maximum dignity and respect to them for they are weak. Yes, they were prevented from going about alone with a protector. It was circumstantial that time. What of today? Face veil may be to prevent fine dusts entering the eyeball or lodging in the auditory canals or the nostrils. That has a medicinal effect. The anatomy and physiology of the eyes, ears and nostrils and their functions is against covering them. There is no inconsistency or contradiction between the Shari'a body functions and common sense.
Matt, you have said something long ago of the backwardness of the followers of Muhammad. This is because they do not give a damn to the Sunna of Muhammad. They just want to be determinants and lazy! Look at how they are treating me. They cannot give a single explanation, but just quote and quote endlessly. How can science progress without proofs and experimenting? Words without action? Who will ever be convinced! In essence they do not understand they cannot achieve anything in the physical world without practicing the Sunna. It is the understanding of the Sunna that brings tranquility in the mind and peace. What is the end benefit of the recent engagement between the Palestinians and the tiny Jewish state? Had they established the caliphate nobody will fight.

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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 6:42am
As I said, Lady, Germans are very direct and we highly value debates. We value people who hold different opinions and we think that it's a good thing that people hold different opinions. It might be different in your culture.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 6:54am
I totally agree that Saudi oil money and the related spread of dark ages Wahhabism increases the backwardness of Muslims around the world. They might visit a mosque and are not aware that it is secretly sponsored by Saudi Arabia. Yes, a large number of Muslims have not developed a culture of handling dissent while remaining polite. I am observing how you are being treated. Although I disagree with many of your views as well, I would never attack you as a person or with strong language and rather look for counter arguments for your arguments. I respect the dignity of every human being.

The Israelis and Palestinians need a vision for peace. Michael Lerner has offered one and it's different from the caliphate you are proposing. People in the West won't support a caliphate because we think the secular model is the better model. We want countries in which people of different religions, atheists and agnostics can co-exist peacefully.

The Sunnah of Muhammad should indeed be investigated by modern scholars as well, especially people trained in historical research. A lot of the Sunnah was written by scholars more than 1000 years ago. We should reexamine of what is authentic and good. Christian scholars have developed a method called higher criticism, see this article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_criticism#Higher_criticism_interpretations



Edited by Matt Browne - 23 November 2012 at 6:55am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2012 at 2:33am
Assalamu alaikum Matt Browne.

Our difference is simple. I read the Torah and the New Testament and finally the Qur'an. The explanation by the Rabbis never contradicts what is in the Qur'an. Allah denies in the Qur'an what is attributed to Him- to have a son.
If the West wants contemporary explanation of the Sunna, then they must support the establishment of the Caliphate to do away with those scholars pegged by the monarchs. There  secular model you support is against the teaching of Muhammad because they call you and others as disbelievers. The Qur'an belongs to all mankind and not a certain class.

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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 27 November 2012 at 3:00pm
Matt,
every religious hierarchy has its dark side. And thank God Islam does not have hierarchy. World cannot forget the Catholic Popes and their dark ages of terror and horror with which they ruled for centuries across Europe and the early Americas. Thank God it's over. Saudi Wahabism is no comparison to what the Popes has done. Good thing is there is no hierarchy in Islam, unlike Catholicism so there is not chance of what happened in case of Popes.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 27 November 2012 at 3:02pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 27 November 2012 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by lady

Sorry, Matt, I meant to say that the way other people see you  is the same way I see you as well.Smile  Maybe you dont mean to come off as arrogant as we perceive you to be.
But like I said, who am I to judge you?


Greetings lady,

Matt... arrogant?
Not at all.  To me arrogant is making personal attacks on someone and their character, or not being polite, acting as if another person opinions were less valid than your own.  I have never seen Matt transgress in any of those.
So yes... 'cultural misunderstandings' for sure.

I am curious, may I ask where you are located?
Because I get the whole thing Matt refers to about Germans being direct and English can take that wrong.  I have also watched english made tv shows and it is funny to me to see how Americans have been portrayed, even as I understand why the english see them the way that they do.  The same problem exists in the United States between north and south.   I also find it amusing the way Japanese animators caricature 'white' people.
I am a fan of Hayao Miyazaki animations because it shows just how differently we all see the world.  How different our 'realities' can be.  Very mind expanding.


Going to Matts original question on this thread...  one thing that I have learned... being a short and to the point person myself... is the importance of giving proper greetings and salutations when engaging in conversation with Muslims.  I have learned that for them this is matter of courtesy and respect, and to neglect to do so comes across as brash.  For me, I am always trying to save on time.  I was used to forums where you just type your answer and it did not offend anyone.  I have great appreciation for courtesy and manners. Smile

Salaam,
Caringheart
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 30 November 2012 at 3:48am
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum Matt Browne. If the West wants contemporary explanation of the Sunna, then they must support the establishment of the Caliphate to do away with those scholars pegged by the monarchs. There secular model you support is against the teaching of Muhammad because they call you and others as disbelievers.


If the secular model I support is against the teaching of Muhammad, then so be it. I will defend the secular model. It's the most important thing that we need to protect. The model guarantees that people can choose to be Christians, Hindus, Muslims or atheists.  The model guarantees that people can choose to change laws if need be.

But I also have the impression that the secular model and Islam can be combined, otherwise all Islamic countries would be theocracies without parliaments and elections. Turkey and Indonesia show us how it can work.



Edited by Matt Browne - 30 November 2012 at 4:48am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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