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Interfaith Dialogue
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Experiential
 
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Topic: Mary and the Date Palm.
    Posted: 13 November 2012 at 2:11am

The Quaran 19.22-26 borrowed from the The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew: Chapter 20.

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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2012 at 1:39am
Originally posted by Experiential

The Quaran 19.22-26 borrowed from the The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew: Chapter 20.

 
What the hell are you talking about? Make your posts more clear.
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2012 at 6:08am
The New Testament was compiled by debate among church leaders with no instructions from God. They picked and chose among books. Sadly, most of the books labelled 'noncanonical' by mere mortals are lost. Pseudo matthew may be one of them, since it is confirmed by God through the Quran.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2012 at 3:06pm
Where are you Experiential?
You disappeared!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2012 at 1:54am
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

The New Testament was compiled by debate among church leaders with no instructions from God. They picked and chose among books. Sadly, most of the books labelled 'noncanonical' by mere mortals are lost. Pseudo matthew may be one of them, since it is confirmed by God through the Quran.

The process of canon (as you say picking and chose among books) lasted 400 years and the councils merely rubber stamped what most of the church already knew as the proper authoritative books. A bit like your hadiths. But with sources with more historically credible in sources than your hadiths.

Actually the The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew is not lost. Its available if you wanted to read it.

Most scholars date the The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew to the fourth or fifth century while the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John were all first century. So on that ground alone of course the  Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew wouldn’t make it into the bible.

The similarities between  The Quran 19.22-26 and The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew Chapter 20 are very obvious. It points to the writer of the Quran borrowing from it.

You say the that New testament books being lost is confirmed  by the Quaran. Can you show me the Quaran verses?  

And anyway which Quran?   Uthmans Quran or pre Uthman Qurans which were all burnt which you have no record of?

 

Check out the similarity between The Quran 19.22-26 and The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew Chapter 20 below -

 

Then she conceived him; and withdrew with him to a remote place. ‏And the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died before this, and had been a thing quite forgotten! ‏So a voice came to her from beneath her: Grieve not, surely thy Lord has provided a stream beneath thee. ‏ And shake towards thee the trunk of the palm-tree, it will drop on thee fresh ripe dates. ‏So eat and drink and cool the eye. Then if thou seest any mortal, say: Surely I have vowed a fast to the Beneficent, so I will not speak to any man to-day.

Qur'an 19:22-26

 

And it came to pass on the third day of their journey, while they were walking, that the blessed Mary was fatigued by the excessive heat of the sun in the desert; and seeing a palm tree, she said to Joseph: Let me rest a little under the shade of this tree. Joseph therefore made haste, and led her to the palm, and made her come down from her beast. And as the blessed Mary was sitting there, she looked up to the foliage of the palm, and saw it full of fruit, and said to Joseph: I wish it were possible to get some of the fruit of this palm. And Joseph said to her: I wonder that thou sayest this, when thou seest how high the palm tree is; and that thou thinkest of eating of its fruit. I am thinking more of the want of water, because the skins are now empty, and we have none wherewith to refresh ourselves and our cattle. Then the child Jesus, with a joyful countenance, reposing in the bosom of His mother, said to the palm: O tree, bend thy branches, and refresh my mother with thy fruit. And immediately at these words the palm bent its top down to the very feet of the blessed Mary; and they gathered from it fruit, with which they were all refreshed. And after they had gathered all its fruit, it remained bent down, waiting the order to rise from Him who bad commanded it to stoop. Then Jesus said to it: Raise thyself, O palm tree, and be strong, and be the companion of my trees, which are in the paradise of my Father; and open from thy roots a vein of water which has been hid in the earth, and let the waters flow, so that we may be satisfied from thee. And it rose up immediately, and at its root there began to come forth a spring of water exceedingly clear and cool and sparkling. And when they saw the spring of water, they rejoiced with great joy, and were satisfied, themselves and all their cattle and their beasts. Wherefore they gave thanks to God.”

The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew: Chapter 20

 

The similarities between  The Quran 19.22-26 and The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew Chapter 20 are very obvious. It points to the writer of the Quran borrowing from it.

 



Edited by Experiential - 15 November 2012 at 1:55am
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 16 November 2012 at 1:59am
Originally posted by Experiential

 

Check out the similarity between The Quran 19.22-26 and The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew Chapter 20 below -

 

Then she conceived him; and withdrew with him to a remote place. ‏And the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died before this, and had been a thing quite forgotten! ‏So a voice came to her from beneath her: Grieve not, surely thy Lord has provided a stream beneath thee. ‏ And shake towards thee the trunk of the palm-tree, it will drop on thee fresh ripe dates. ‏So eat and drink and cool the eye. Then if thou seest any mortal, say: Surely I have vowed a fast to the Beneficent, so I will not speak to any man to-day.

Qur'an 19:22-26

 

And it came to pass on the third day of their journey, while they were walking, that the blessed Mary was fatigued by the excessive heat of the sun in the desert; and seeing a palm tree, she said to Joseph: Let me rest a little under the shade of this tree. Joseph therefore made haste, and led her to the palm, and made her come down from her beast. And as the blessed Mary was sitting there, she looked up to the foliage of the palm, and saw it full of fruit, and said to Joseph: I wish it were possible to get some of the fruit of this palm. And Joseph said to her: I wonder that thou sayest this, when thou seest how high the palm tree is; and that thou thinkest of eating of its fruit. I am thinking more of the want of water, because the skins are now empty, and we have none wherewith to refresh ourselves and our cattle. Then the child Jesus, with a joyful countenance, reposing in the bosom of His mother, said to the palm: O tree, bend thy branches, and refresh my mother with thy fruit. And immediately at these words the palm bent its top down to the very feet of the blessed Mary; and they gathered from it fruit, with which they were all refreshed. And after they had gathered all its fruit, it remained bent down, waiting the order to rise from Him who bad commanded it to stoop. Then Jesus said to it: Raise thyself, O palm tree, and be strong, and be the companion of my trees, which are in the paradise of my Father; and open from thy roots a vein of water which has been hid in the earth, and let the waters flow, so that we may be satisfied from thee. And it rose up immediately, and at its root there began to come forth a spring of water exceedingly clear and cool and sparkling. And when they saw the spring of water, they rejoiced with great joy, and were satisfied, themselves and all their cattle and their beasts. Wherefore they gave thanks to God.”

The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew: Chapter 20

 

The similarities between  The Quran 19.22-26 and The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew Chapter 20 are very obvious. It points to the writer of the Quran borrowing from it.

 

 
It's obvious to any man with an ounce of intelligence that the Godpel of Pseudo Matthew is a forgery and a fake.
 
First of all the Holy Qur'an documents her journey to a place in the East before she deliverd Jesus (pbuh) whilst the fake one has Jesus (pbuh) on her bosom. Secondly the fake one has Joseph who was supposedly betrothed to Mary in the narrative whilst there is no mention of Joseph in the Holy Qur'an. This clearly tells us that when Joseph married Mary it was way after the birth of Jesus (pbuh).
 
Thirdly there are various claims by people to discredit the Holy Qur'an that the Prophet (pbuh) copied from Christian sources. Of course, non-believers would say that wouldn't they? If you want to believe or not, the Prophet was illiterate. The real miracle is that this unlettered Prophet (pbuh) producing the Holy Qur'an with the help of angel Jibril (Alayhi Salaam).
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2012 at 3:02pm

Abu Loren Said

It's obvious to any man with an ounce of intelligence that the Godpel of Pseudo Matthew is a forgery and a fake.

 First of all the Holy Qur'an documents her journey to a place in the East before she deliverd Jesus (pbuh) whilst the fake one has Jesus (pbuh) on her bosom. Secondly the fake one has Joseph who was supposedly betrothed to Mary in the narrative whilst there is no mention of Joseph in the Holy Qur'an. This clearly tells us that when Joseph married Mary it was way after the birth of Jesus (pbuh).

 

My Reply

Of course they are not exactly identical. Remember myths and stories often got passed down orally.

The similarities of the story are too obvious. It points to the writer of the Quran borrowing from it.

  

Abu Loren Said

Thirdly there are various claims by people to discredit the Holy Qur'an that the Prophet (pbuh) copied from Christian sources. Of course, non-believers would say that wouldn't they?

If you want to believe or not, the Prophet was illiterate. The real miracle is that this unlettered Prophet (pbuh) producing the Holy Qur'an with the help of angel Jibril (Alayhi Salaam).

 

My Reply

So what if he was illiterate. He recited and others memorised and wrote.

The Quran has too many problems, inconsistencies and obvious tampering by man.

I saw your post in the thread ‘Where is the Injil ? ’ About the Sanaa Quran, where you said, “Uthman compiled the authentic Qur'an way before the Sanaa version. So obviously it was a copy that somebody tried to do then discard.”

So what if it was pre or post Uthman? It shows there was tampering my man and too many problems, inconsistencies  and contradictions with the Quran exist for Muslims to claim that the Quran, as it has reached us today, is “the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God”.

 

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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2012 at 12:19pm
Assalamu alaika Experiential.

Your argument is against you, for if you believe in Psuedo-Matthew, they you believed in Muhammad Rasulullah. Was Jesus the one who named it?
Experiential consider this sensible scenario: If Muhammad were to tell the people of the Book something they have never heard, would they turn their ears to him and reject him?
This one of the meaning of Qur'an. Another meaning is compare? What are then comparing? We try to educate you but at each step you turn away.

Friendship.

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