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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: CHRISTIANS:WHO CAN FORGIVE SINS? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 7:31am
Hi Rational,

Quote: Third time I'll ask you the same question. Remember I asked first so it's your turn to answer. If you're not comfortable with this question you can say so and we'll happily move on.
In claiming that you are a muslim, do you believe in the two parts of the following sentence?
"There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is the messenger of Allah"?

Response: --- Actually that was the last question you asked in your first post and I was going through it systematically, to find out what is ‘ignored and disagreeable’ between the Bible and the Quran, --- and what new laws there are in the Quran that are not in the former Scriptures.

I am a Christian, so, a follower of Jesus. --- However, I gave the identification from verses in the Quran that since the word Islam means ‘Surrender,’ --- and Muslim means, ‘a surrendered one,’ --- then I identify with the faith of Abraham who was ‘surrendered’ unto his Lord in Genesis. --- And with the disciples mentioned in Surah 3:52, who were called ‘surrendered ones’ or ‘Muslims’ by some translators.
--- The name Christian means ‘Christ’s ones.’

No, I am not a Muslim according to your definition.
--- But when we get through the other questions, we can discuss this further.
--- I have high regard for Muhammad and the Quran, as you know, and we all believe there is only One Almighty God.

However, what bothers me is this:
While this is meant to be a statement of faith for Muslims, --- when used as a creed by the terrorists, it ‘defames’ Muhammad, because it identifies him as the leader of the terrorists, under God.

--- God led Muhammad in a Mission to destroy idolatry in Arabia, and restore faith in One God, --- which he accomplished. --- I believe it was at that point that God revealed the profound statement that is tucked away in Surah 5:
3 “This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.”
--- Because before Muhammad brought peace and declared victory, and the completion of his Mission at his ‘Farewell Pilgrimage’ in year 10 of the Hijrah, shortly before he died, --- he still had enemies and objecters to the Faith, did he not?


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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2013 at 7:17am

‎السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Originally posted by Placid


Response: --- Actually that was the last question you asked in your first post and I was going through it systematically...

hmmm. I swear I asked the first question before anything... But nevermind. The pages are there if we needed to go back.

Originally posted by Placid


No, I am not a Muslim according to your definition.

So the answer to my question is no, you don't believe in both parts of that sentence. For that I can't take you as a muslim. Us muslims must not be tempted into assuming that you are a muslim. The Quran is clear.

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves." (48:29)

If you are not a believer in the Messenger of Allah, then you are not one of us, Muslims.

Originally posted by Placid


However, what bothers me is this:
While this is meant to be a statement of faith for Muslims, --- when used as a creed by the terrorists, it ‘defames’ Muhammad, because it identifies him as the leader of the terrorists, under God.

This is because you are one of many that have been accustomed to a sheeple way of thinking without any logical reasoning or evidence. That's what modern mainstream media does. It pollutes the hearts and minds and most are falling victims to it. Are you speaking of those masked terrorists that are funded by governments and keep mysteriously appearing on TV? They are being promoted to demonise Islam, the true religion that stands in the way of thier evil goals. Those terrorist??? Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. This lie was invented by the very people that want to destroy the truth and they don't care how many lives are involved. The latest word we keep hearing is "islamist". They are "Innovators" and Allah Azza Wajal will put them all to shame.

Don't tell me you believe that 9/11 was done by 19 guys from a cave? Stop it now!


Edited by Rational - 17 January 2013 at 11:14am
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2013 at 11:29am
Hi Rational,

This was your original post on page 2:

Quote: Originally posted by Placid
Actually, you can Identify me as a Muslim (surrendered one) if you like.

Assalam alaik Placid,

You are trying to prove that the Quran and the Bible, in their present form, are compatible and have the same message. You compare versus from both books that agree, but ignore all the others that contradict and disagree.

Muslims are told by God (SWT) that the Quran is the complete, preserved and final message, and it is a blessing from Him and we should be thankful:

"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion." (5:3)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/15:9
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/4:82
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/41:42
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/3:85
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/3:19

Muslims trust in the Quran and consider it to be the only remaining, complete, unaltered, true word of God (SWT). Muslims cannot trust or rely on other books because they could have been altered. Muslims believe in the books revealed by the prophets, but not the current versions that are in contradiction with the Quran.

That said, it seems you agree with the teaching of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and the Quran. Which implies that you believe that Mohammad (pbuh) was the last messenger of God (SWT) after Jesus (pbuh). And you identify yourself as being a Muslim.

For this reason, are you prepared to declare that you are a Muslim by saying the following:
"There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is the messenger of Allah"? --- End of quote.


Response: --- While I have answered your question at the end, --- I was concentrating on the first paragraph, where you said this:
Quote: You are trying to prove that the Quran and the Bible, in their present form, are compatible and have the same message. You compare verses from both books that agree, but ignore all the others that contradict and disagree. End of quote.

So I asked, what verses do I ignore that ‘contradict and disagree.’?

Then I asked, ‘What are the new laws in the Quran that are not in the former Scriptures?'


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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2013 at 1:42pm
"Islam has nothing to do with terrorism."  Rational is this simply a question of semantics or do you really believe Muslims haven't had any role in killing innocent people? If so, we need to ask which TV channel you've been watching also. And to suggest that whenever Muslims are involved, they are paid agents "to demonise Islam" is preposterous. 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2013 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by abuayisha

"Islam has nothing to do with terrorism."  Rational is this simply a question of semantics or do you really believe Muslims haven't had any role in killing innocent people? If so, we need to ask which TV channel you've been watching also. And to suggest that whenever Muslims are involved, they are paid agents "to demonise Islam" is preposterous. 

Assalamo Alaik abuayisha,

Don't put words into my mouth, I never said "whenever Muslims are involved, they are paid agents "to demonise Islam".

A Muslim would not kill innocent people. That's all I'll say.
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2013 at 5:41pm

Rational, it is truly problematic when our community will not face the sad truth of what has been taking place, and will likely continue, until those of our coreligionist who believe in an extreme ideology, which in their estimation makes killing of the innocent "other" a religious praiseworthy duty, are acknowledged and dealt with. These Muslims should not be allowed to hide behind your well intentioned platitudes.

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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 18 January 2013 at 3:29am
Originally posted by abuayisha

Rational, it is truly problematic when our community will not face the sad truth of what has been taking place, and will likely continue, until those of our coreligionist who believe in an extreme ideology, which in their estimation makes killing of the innocent "other" a religious praiseworthy duty, are acknowledged and dealt with. These Muslims should not be allowed to hide behind your well intentioned platitudes.

Assalmo Alaik abuayisha,

Beautifully put. I'm interested to understand your views a bit better.

What is the "sad truth" and what is the source of the problem?

What do you mean "Muslims should not be allowed to hide behind your well intentioned platitudes"?


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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 18 January 2013 at 9:26am
Well, Rational, simply put, we have a small and growing number of Muslims, who for ideological and political reasons, have absolutely no problem with murder. Indeed that is sad. The source is ignorance of their religion. I think our Islamic community must face this problem and not pretend it doesn't exist. Saudi Arabia has an excellent program to reeducate and rehabilitate terrorist and extremist sympathizers.
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