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Nausheen
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Topic: The invitation...
Posted: 08 November 2012 at 6:16pm

Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah,

It is said in the Quran the following:
16:125

Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided.

We are instructed to invite others to the way of Our Lord 'with wisdom' and 'with good'

We are told to do this 'in a way that is best'

Is it the best way to tell the non muslims 'you infedel! Im here to educate you, so better listen to me - as that is best for you' ?

just wondering

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 09 November 2012 at 1:57am

Originally posted by Nausheen

Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah,

It is said in the Quran the following:
16:125

Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided.

We are instructed to invite others to the way of Our Lord 'with wisdom' and 'with good'

We are told to do this 'in a way that is best'

Is it the best way to tell the non muslims 'you infedel! Im here to educate you, so better listen to me - as that is best for you' ?

just wondering

Wa Alaikkum As'alaam Wa Rahmatulliah Wa Barakatuhu

You are right, however if you haven't noticed it already most of the non-Muslims on this forum are here to dicredit Islam and the Prophet (pbuh).

Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala also says in the Holy Qur'an

Sahih International

Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided

You and I on our own cannot do anything without the guidance of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening book [from Him], 22:8

I think the above verse is more relevant to the people here (non-Muslims).

Salaam

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Nausheen
Female Islam
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Posted: 11 November 2012 at 5:29am

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided

You and I on our own cannot do anything without the guidance of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening book [from Him], 22:8

I think the above verse is more relevant to the people here (non-Muslims).

Salaam

Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu,

Then what's the point educating them?

And what's the point in referring to them with derogatory terminology?

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Abu Loren
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Location: United Arab Emirates
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Posted: 11 November 2012 at 6:19am

Originally posted by Nausheen

Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu,

Then what's the point educating them?

And what's the point in referring to them with derogatory terminology?

Wa Alaikkum As'alaam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Tell me where I have used derogatory terms?

If you haven't noticed already the majority of the non-muslims particularly the Christians are not here to educate themselves but to mock and discredit Islam and the Prophet (pbuh).

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Matt Browne
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Posted: 12 November 2012 at 5:57am

Is it the best way? Of course not. Muslims whose goal is peace on Earth and a peaceful co-existence of different religion never use the words nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, infidel or kafir.

I can't think of a single Christian active on Islamicity who has ever called a Muslim a disbeliever or pagan or heathen. In the Christian past, the word heathen was often used to describe non-Christians. But Christianity has evolved. Christians believe in progress. When German news programs report about the Hajj, they refer to Muslim pilgrims as believers. Of course there are differences between Christian believers and Muslim believers. But this doesn't mean that they are not believers. Jews are believers too. And so are Hindus. Their beliefs are quite different from ours. But they are still beliefs. The beliefs of Sunnis and Shiites do also differ. Still both groups are groups of believers.

Christians on Islamicity do not mock Islam or the Prophet. I can't think of a single example. Besides, if someone tried, the moderators would intervene.

Educated Christians respect educated Muslims, which means that there is criticism and disagreement about certain claims and certain interpretations of the Quran and the Hadith. In Western culture, challenging someone's view is a sign of respect. It makes no sense to challenge a silly child and try to engage him or her in a intellectual debate. Christians who invest time and visit Islamic websites want to treat Muslims as mature adults, not children.

During debates both Christians and Muslims learn a lot. Christians also learn a lot when Muslims explain Islam. I am a Christian who greatly values education.

Edited by Matt Browne - 12 November 2012 at 6:00am

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 12 November 2012 at 8:03am

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Is it the best way? Of course not. Muslims whose goal is peace on Earth and a peaceful co-existence of different religion never use the words nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, infidel or kafir.

I can't think of a single Christian active on Islamicity who has ever called a Muslim a disbeliever or pagan or heathen. In the Christian past, the word heathen was often used to describe non-Christians. But Christianity has evolved. Christians believe in progress. When German news programs report about the Hajj, they refer to Muslim pilgrims as believers. Of course there are differences between Christian believers and Muslim believers. But this doesn't mean that they are not believers. Jews are believers too. And so are Hindus. Their beliefs are quite different from ours. But they are still beliefs. The beliefs of Sunnis and Shiites do also differ. Still both groups are groups of believers.

Christians on Islamicity do not mock Islam or the Prophet. I can't think of a single example. Besides, if someone tried, the moderators would intervene.

Educated Christians respect educated Muslims, which means that there is criticism and disagreement about certain claims and certain interpretations of the Quran and the Hadith. In Western culture, challenging someone's view is a sign of respect. It makes no sense to challenge a silly child and try to engage him or her in a intellectual debate. Christians who invest time and visit Islamic websites want to treat Muslims as mature adults, not children.

During debates both Christians and Muslims learn a lot. Christians also learn a lot when Muslims explain Islam. I am a Christian who greatly values education.

Political correctness is a Western way.

The words nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, infidel or kafir can be found in the Holy Qur'an and refers to anybody who does not believe in Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala as the One True God who created the heavens and the earth.

Progressiveness can be a form of innovaion which is forbidden in Islam. We muslims must keep to the principles and guidelines that we are given in the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).

To be it doesn't matter what any non-muslim says, they are all basically clueless. The proof is that the most intelligent people on earth are Christians and they believe in nonsense called the Trinity. This alone proves that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala puts a veil over the eyes of the unbeliever and He guides whom He wills.

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Caringheart

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Posts: 1311

Posted: 12 November 2012 at 12:25pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Political correctness is a Western way.

Greetings Abu Loren,

It would be good for you to remember that the earlier scriptures referred to infidels and unbelievers, and they were not referring precisely and specifically to all Jews, or Christians. You really must be careful to discern what is an unbeliever. This is where progress and intellect matter. God does expect one to discern Truth from falsehood.
You are correct, those words apply only to those who do not believe in the one God of Abraham.
And still, all persons are entitled to their own belief... there should be 'no compulsion in religion'... God gives free will.

When progressiveness is forbidden, you must ask yourself, who is it in order to keep you a slave to? Who are you really serving?

God does not forbid seeking. On the contrary, God encourages it.

Salaam,
CH

Edited by Caringheart - 12 November 2012 at 12:29pm

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Matt Browne
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Joined: 19 April 2010
Location: Germany
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Posts: 755

Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:22am

I wonder if Muslims on Islamicity have the courage to challenge your views, Abu Loren.

If words like disbeliever are found in the Quran, does this mean you have to use them when meeting non-Muslims? If words like slave are found in the Quran, does this mean that you have to implement slavery in Muslim countries? If words like Jihad are found in the Quran, does this mean you should conquer non-Muslim countries (as was done between 632 and 1683 CE)?

Progressiveness and innovation is not forbidden in Islam. There are numerous verses in the Quran that encourage Muslims to use their brain and seek new knowledge. If progress was forbidden, people in the United Arab Emirates would ride camels and not drive cars and not use web browsers, and they would drink camel urine (as prescribed by the Hadith) and not get insulin shots. It doesn't matter what non-Muslims say, because they are all basically clueless? Yeah, well, I wonder how the clueless people found oil in the United Arab Emirates and built cars, and also replaced camel urine with insulin. I wonder who's clueless here.

Edited by Matt Browne - 13 November 2012 at 8:28am

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Author	Message
Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Topic: The invitation... Posted: 08 November 2012 at 6:16pm
	Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah, It is said in the Quran the following: 16:125 Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided. We are instructed to invite others to the way of Our Lord 'with wisdom' and 'with good' We are told to do this 'in a way that is best' Is it the best way to tell the non muslims 'you infedel! Im here to educate you, so better listen to me - as that is best for you' ? just wondering
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 09 November 2012 at 1:57am
	*Originally posted by Nausheen* Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah, It is said in the Quran the following: 16:125 Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided. We are instructed to invite others to the way of Our Lord 'with wisdom' and 'with good' We are told to do this 'in a way that is best' Is it the best way to tell the non muslims 'you infedel! Im here to educate you, so better listen to me - as that is best for you' ? just wondering Wa Alaikkum As'alaam Wa Rahmatulliah Wa Barakatuhu You are right, however if you haven't noticed it already most of the non-Muslims on this forum are here to dicredit Islam and the Prophet (pbuh). Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala also says in the Holy Qur'an Sahih International Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided You and I on our own cannot do anything without the guidance of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening book [from Him], 22:8 I think the above verse is more relevant to the people here (non-Muslims). Salaam
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Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 11 November 2012 at 5:29am
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided You and I on our own cannot do anything without the guidance of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening book [from Him], 22:8 I think the above verse is more relevant to the people here (non-Muslims). Salaam Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu, Then what's the point educating them? And what's the point in referring to them with derogatory terminology?
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 11 November 2012 at 6:19am
	*Originally posted by Nausheen* Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu, Then what's the point educating them? And what's the point in referring to them with derogatory terminology? Wa Alaikkum As'alaam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu Tell me where I have used derogatory terms? If you haven't noticed already the majority of the non-muslims particularly the Christians are not here to educate themselves but to mock and discredit Islam and the Prophet (pbuh).
	IP Logged

Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 12 November 2012 at 5:57am
	Is it the best way? Of course not. Muslims whose goal is peace on Earth and a peaceful co-existence of different religion never use the words nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, infidel or kafir. I can't think of a single Christian active on Islamicity who has ever called a Muslim a disbeliever or pagan or heathen. In the Christian past, the word heathen was often used to describe non-Christians. But Christianity has evolved. Christians believe in progress. When German news programs report about the Hajj, they refer to Muslim pilgrims as believers. Of course there are differences between Christian believers and Muslim believers. But this doesn't mean that they are not believers. Jews are believers too. And so are Hindus. Their beliefs are quite different from ours. But they are still beliefs. The beliefs of Sunnis and Shiites do also differ. Still both groups are groups of believers. Christians on Islamicity do not mock Islam or the Prophet. I can't think of a single example. Besides, if someone tried, the moderators would intervene. Educated Christians respect educated Muslims, which means that there is criticism and disagreement about certain claims and certain interpretations of the Quran and the Hadith. In Western culture, challenging someone's view is a sign of respect. It makes no sense to challenge a silly child and try to engage him or her in a intellectual debate. Christians who invest time and visit Islamic websites want to treat Muslims as mature adults, not children. During debates both Christians and Muslims learn a lot. Christians also learn a lot when Muslims explain Islam. I am a Christian who greatly values education. Edited by Matt Browne - 12 November 2012 at 6:00am
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 12 November 2012 at 8:03am
	*Originally posted by Matt Browne* Is it the best way? Of course not. Muslims whose goal is peace on Earth and a peaceful co-existence of different religion never use the words nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, infidel or kafir. I can't think of a single Christian active on Islamicity who has ever called a Muslim a disbeliever or pagan or heathen. In the Christian past, the word heathen was often used to describe non-Christians. But Christianity has evolved. Christians believe in progress. When German news programs report about the Hajj, they refer to Muslim pilgrims as believers. Of course there are differences between Christian believers and Muslim believers. But this doesn't mean that they are not believers. Jews are believers too. And so are Hindus. Their beliefs are quite different from ours. But they are still beliefs. The beliefs of Sunnis and Shiites do also differ. Still both groups are groups of believers. Christians on Islamicity do not mock Islam or the Prophet. I can't think of a single example. Besides, if someone tried, the moderators would intervene. Educated Christians respect educated Muslims, which means that there is criticism and disagreement about certain claims and certain interpretations of the Quran and the Hadith. In Western culture, challenging someone's view is a sign of respect. It makes no sense to challenge a silly child and try to engage him or her in a intellectual debate. Christians who invest time and visit Islamic websites want to treat Muslims as mature adults, not children. During debates both Christians and Muslims learn a lot. Christians also learn a lot when Muslims explain Islam. I am a Christian who greatly values education. Political correctness is a Western way. The words nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, infidel or kafir can be found in the Holy Qur'an and refers to anybody who does not believe in Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala as the One True God who created the heavens and the earth. Progressiveness can be a form of innovaion which is forbidden in Islam. We muslims must keep to the principles and guidelines that we are given in the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). To be it doesn't matter what any non-muslim says, they are all basically clueless. The proof is that the most intelligent people on earth are Christians and they believe in nonsense called the Trinity. This alone proves that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala puts a veil over the eyes of the unbeliever and He guides whom He wills.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 12 November 2012 at 12:25pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by Matt Browne* Is it the best way? Of course not. Muslims whose goal is peace on Earth and a peaceful co-existence of different religion never use the words nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, infidel or kafir. I can't think of a single Christian active on Islamicity who has ever called a Muslim a disbeliever or pagan or heathen. In the Christian past, the word heathen was often used to describe non-Christians. But Christianity has evolved. Christians believe in progress. When German news programs report about the Hajj, they refer to Muslim pilgrims as believers. Of course there are differences between Christian believers and Muslim believers. But this doesn't mean that they are not believers. Jews are believers too. And so are Hindus. Their beliefs are quite different from ours. But they are still beliefs. The beliefs of Sunnis and Shiites do also differ. Still both groups are groups of believers. Christians on Islamicity do not mock Islam or the Prophet. I can't think of a single example. Besides, if someone tried, the moderators would intervene. Educated Christians respect educated Muslims, which means that there is criticism and disagreement about certain claims and certain interpretations of the Quran and the Hadith. In Western culture, challenging someone's view is a sign of respect. It makes no sense to challenge a silly child and try to engage him or her in a intellectual debate. Christians who invest time and visit Islamic websites want to treat Muslims as mature adults, not children. During debates both Christians and Muslims learn a lot. Christians also learn a lot when Muslims explain Islam. I am a Christian who greatly values education. Political correctness is a Western way. The words nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, infidel or kafir can be found in the Holy Qur'an and refers to anybody who does not believe in Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala as the One True God who created the heavens and the earth. Progressiveness can be a form of innovaion which is forbidden in Islam. We muslims must keep to the principles and guidelines that we are given in the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). Greetings Abu Loren, It would be good for you to remember that the earlier scriptures referred to infidels and unbelievers, and they were not referring precisely and specifically to all Jews, or Christians. You really must be careful to discern what is an unbeliever. This is where progress and intellect matter. God does expect one to discern Truth from falsehood. You are correct, those words apply only to those who do not believe in the one God of Abraham. And still, all persons are entitled to their own belief... there should be 'no compulsion in religion'... God gives free will. When progressiveness is forbidden, you must ask yourself, who is it in order to keep you a slave to? Who are you really serving? God does not forbid seeking. On the contrary, God encourages it. Salaam, CH Edited by Caringheart - 12 November 2012 at 12:29pm
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Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:22am
	I wonder if Muslims on Islamicity have the courage to challenge your views, Abu Loren. If words like disbeliever are found in the Quran, does this mean you have to use them when meeting non-Muslims? If words like slave are found in the Quran, does this mean that you have to implement slavery in Muslim countries? If words like Jihad are found in the Quran, does this mean you should conquer non-Muslim countries (as was done between 632 and 1683 CE)? Progressiveness and innovation is not forbidden in Islam. There are numerous verses in the Quran that encourage Muslims to use their brain and seek new knowledge. If progress was forbidden, people in the United Arab Emirates would ride camels and not drive cars and not use web browsers, and they would drink camel urine (as prescribed by the Hadith) and not get insulin shots. It doesn't matter what non-Muslims say, because they are all basically clueless? Yeah, well, I wonder how the clueless people found oil in the United Arab Emirates and built cars, and also replaced camel urine with insulin. I wonder who's clueless here. Edited by Matt Browne - 13 November 2012 at 8:28am
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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