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Message Icon Topic: In Defense Of Radical Islam(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Caringheart
 
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bullet Posted: 09 November 2012 at 9:05pm
"A believers enemy is the non-believer. "

but it depends on the definition of non-believer to know where the evil lies doesn't it?
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bullet Posted: 09 November 2012 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by schmikbob

You have to love Abu Loren's rhetoric.  You are my enemy because you don't believe in the tenets of my faith.  That is the definition of evil in my book and the main ingredient in quite a few ongoing few civil wars.  Hopefully evil is simply Non Muslim's boogie man. 


He seems to be concerned about my soul and I thank him for that.  He has something in which he strongly believes. My hope is that he came to those beliefs freely and based on reason and I am curious to to understand why he believes something that I have studied and rejected.

I cannot say that there is no God nor can I claim there is a God because extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

As to the OP, in retrospect I understand why the 911 bombers did what they did but like Bush they attacked the wrong target. The people who harm people in the Middle East and other brown people did not work at the Pentagon or the Twin Towers. There is no cabal of Jews running the world. The people responsible for the harm to this planet and its people are the one who control the wealth and wealth controls the power. They are the oppressors and oppression breeds violence. Violence is not always a bad thing but senseless violence is.

Arabs and Muslims have a saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" so just because Abu Loren and I may not agree on spiritual matters is no reason why he and I cannot be friends especially given the fact that we share a common enemy.


Edited by Non Muslim - 09 November 2012 at 9:09pm
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Ghazzali
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bullet Posted: 10 November 2012 at 12:50am
Aassalamualaikum Abu Loren. I understand from which point of view you are saying that agnostics are worse than atheists, but I see it from a different perspective.

Philosophically speaking, agnostics are better than atheists because they do not deny the existence of God. Just because a muslim or a christian failed to prove that God exists does not mean God does not exist. May be there are other proofs. The agnostic continuously searches for proof. It is almost impossible to prove that God does not exist. The agnostic acknowledges it. The atheist, on the other hand, is a hypocrite because he/she does not have the proof that God does not exist, but he/she believes in it. The atheist believes in something he/she cannot prove. When you confront an atheist to prove that God does not exist, he/she shrugs off the responsibility and puts the burden of proof on the theist.

But I guess it's true Abu Loren that ironically, atheists have a better chance to convert to a religion than agnostics. The reason is that in the face of overwhelming evidence, the atheist tries even harder to defend his/her theory, thereby digging deep into a hole from which he/she cannot escape. The more he/she digs, the more the hollowness of atheism comes to light. But the agnostic does not feel the same pressure, since he/she has all the options on the table.

It's just a generalized view of the atheist and the agnostic. There are always exceptions.
The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.
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bullet Posted: 10 November 2012 at 2:38am
Originally posted by Ghazzali

Aassalamualaikum Abu Loren. I understand from which point of view you are saying that agnostics are worse than atheists, but I see it from a different perspective.

Philosophically speaking, agnostics are better than atheists because they do not deny the existence of God. Just because a muslim or a christian failed to prove that God exists does not mean God does not exist. May be there are other proofs. The agnostic continuously searches for proof. It is almost impossible to prove that God does not exist. The agnostic acknowledges it. The atheist, on the other hand, is a hypocrite because he/she does not have the proof that God does not exist, but he/she believes in it. The atheist believes in something he/she cannot prove. When you confront an atheist to prove that God does not exist, he/she shrugs off the responsibility and puts the burden of proof on the theist.

But I guess it's true Abu Loren that ironically, atheists have a better chance to convert to a religion than agnostics. The reason is that in the face of overwhelming evidence, the atheist tries even harder to defend his/her theory, thereby digging deep into a hole from which he/she cannot escape. The more he/she digs, the more the hollowness of atheism comes to light. But the agnostic does not feel the same pressure, since he/she has all the options on the table.

It's just a generalized view of the atheist and the agnostic. There are always exceptions.


That's quite a generalization about  agnostics. For anyone who says that god exists or that their God is the only true god I say prove it.

I can prove that it either does not exist or does not listen.

OK God if you exist then give us humans an indisputable sign. That will be for God who believers say is loving and mercuful to end all childhood disease.

Christian think that Jesus is God. They have what they call a trinity and explain it as 3 persons in one God. Jesus is quoted in the Bible saying that he is God and in other parts of the Bible he says he is not God according to the writers of the gospels. Both cannot be true although Christians will are that both statements are true because they believe the Bible is innerrant. I can state with 100% certainty that the Bible is full of 1000's of errors and contradictions and every Muslim here would agree. But if I were to say that the Koran was full of errors they would disagree and Christians would agree. They can't both be right but they can certainly both be wrong.

There is a difference. I can go to the most hard core Christian church in America on Sunday and tell those Christians that the Koran is the only true word of God and I would be largely ignored or some would offer their prayers.  If I were to do the same thing in Saudi Arabia but instead stand outside a mosque with a Bible saying that is is the true word of God I think they'd kill me.

What does this say? Are Muslims stronger in their belief and better at defending the faith than Christians?

Are Christians more sure of their faith where they feel they don't need to defend it?

Here's is another question. Why does God need our adorations?

Here's another question. Humans have lived all over the globe for over 200,000 years. What took so long for God to send a prophet/messiah to tell human kind what he wanted of us?

First there was Moses and the old testament and the 10 commandments but that was not good enough so some time late he sent Jesus and he died for our sins even though non of us were born yet but somehow Eve's mistake with the snake was also our fault. Turns out Jesus was not the Messiah as the NT claims and along come the Muslim prophet Mohammad. Unlike Jesus, Mohammad was no blood relation to God. Infact Mohammad never actually talked to God. Jesus talked to God all the time. It was sort of a father son thing. The problem is that not one word in the Christian Bible was written by Jesus Christ. That kinda rules out the idea that Jesus was a prophet because prophets are messengers and translators for God.

The Koran was compiled long after one of Mohammed's wives killed him. Mohammed started getting messages from God via the angel Gabriel and this went on from 610 CE to 632.  The Koran was cannonized by Uthman ibn Affan in 665 and he had several variations of it.

God gave Moses the 10 commandments in his own handwriting in stone instantly and that is the only part of the Bible written by God.

Along come Joseph Smith in the mid to late 1800 and he finds some gold tablets written by God and he translates them from Egyptian into middle English even though in the 1800 people were speaking modern English. The golden tablets are nowhere to be found.

Muslims have debubked the Bible and have shown it to be silly and they have proven that Christ was not divine.

Joseph Smith who brought the world Mormonism was a known flim flam artist.

In the 1960 along comes L Ron Hubbard another con artist.

Christians and other scholars have debunked the Koran.

Christians and Muslims would agree that Mormonism and Scientology are pure bunk.

The way I see it Mormons, Muslims, Christians, and Scientologists base their faith on bunk.

It seems to be that if any of these three faiths were true God would have written one indisputable book that left not even a shadow of doubt that god was the author but he did not do that. Moses claimed God wrote the 10 commandments but I don't believe him. He was on that mountain for a very long time.


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bullet Posted: 10 November 2012 at 2:21pm
Ghazzali -I am impressed. You seem to have no problem understanding how agnostics see the world.

I agree there are many who fit your description of atheists. Richard Dawkins is one exception, who is invariably 'tarred with the same brush' by those not directly acquainted with his writing.
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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bullet Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:55pm
Assalamu alaikum.

I have seen the interview of Prof Richard Dawkins and also read his book. There is nothing abnormal in his agnostic beliefs for if science according to him failed to prove to him the existence of One Allah, no one according to the teaching of Muhammad should blame him. He will settle his score with Allah. We are a family of pharmacists and doctors. Yet our father died in our presence. Who is responsible. Were we guilty?

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schmikbob
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bullet Posted: 10 November 2012 at 9:27pm
Actually Abu Loren, I believe only you said that my definition of evil is someone that believes in God.  I didn't.   Maybe you should try an accurate quote instead of twisting words and misquoting like a politician. 
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