IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: CHRISTIANS:ACCORDING TO BIBLE,WHO CREATES EVIL?

Author

Message

Mahdi The Seeke
Male
Senior Member

Joined: 28 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 257

Topic: CHRISTIANS:ACCORDING TO BIBLE,WHO CREATES EVIL?
Posted: 06 November 2012 at 4:51am

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV) 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

IP Logged

Salaam_Erin
Male Christian
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 30 October 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 41

Posted: 15 November 2012 at 6:24am

We don't mean moral evil here but circumstantial evil. This is circumstantial evil in the sense of something bad happen to someone, in this case as a result of Divine judgement on them as punishment for their sin. God is saying that He alone has control over everything. The operative words in Hebrew are tov and ra. Another way of translating the passage is, "I form teh light and create darkness, I bring properity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

IP Logged

Mahdi The Seeke
Male
Senior Member

Joined: 28 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 257

Posted: 16 November 2012 at 9:54am

Originally posted by Salaam_Erin

We don't mean moral evil here but circumstantial evil. This is circumstantial evil in the sense of something bad happen to someone, in this case as a result of Divine judgement on them as punishment for their sin. God is saying that He alone has control over everything. The operative words in Hebrew are tov and ra. Another way of translating the passage is, "I form teh light and create darkness, I bring properity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

Fair enough

IP Logged

Abu Loren
Male Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 29 June 2012
Location: United Arab Emirates
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 568

Posted: 16 November 2012 at 10:35am

Laughing out very loudly because Christians will always have another 'version' to back up their arguement. Christians will always be in denial.

IP Logged

Empiricist
Male Christian
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 26 February 2012
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 41

Posted: 21 January 2013 at 2:02pm

I have observed the exact same behavior from Muslims. Can you say anything constructive?

God allows evil to exist, without which one could not recognize good. Evil tries to appear good often times truth will emerge.

The root and source of all evil is ...... ignorance. (Plato... something like that).

I cannot deny this statement.

How is it that Jews and Christians are considered the worst filth imaginable according to Allah, yet Allah is forgiving and loving? But Jesus was a prophet from God according to Muslims. So therefore God created a filthy unclean person? This does not make any sense to me. I can only conclude that the Quran is not from God but written by men with political motives, with evil motives from evil influences. Jesus was not evil and his words per the bible do not reflect evil. But the Quran is full of questionable sayings of Muhammed. Yet Muslims are taught that it is OK to kill "nonbelievers" (of what?) and that anyone questioning the Quran can be killed, even if it is your brother! Is that love???

IP Logged

nospam001
Male Agnostic
Senior Member

Joined: 02 October 2012
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 150

Posted: 23 January 2013 at 1:58pm

Originally posted by Empiricist

God allows evil to exist, without which one could not recognize good.

Is that the only reason? If so then surely there are other, less harmful ways He could arrange things to achieve the same result. There are real killings reported in the news and fictional ones on TV and in books, but the fictional ones often elicit a more powerful response from audiences. Why not use that method instead?

God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.

IP Logged

Caringheart

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1330

Posted: 23 January 2013 at 2:53pm

Originally posted by nospam001

Originally posted by Empiricist

God allows evil to exist, without which one could not recognize good.

Yin and yang
positive and negative forces
the force of good, the force of evil
it's just the structure of the world
don't ask me why Ermm

What would happen if a magnet had only a positive force?
Can that even happen?

Edited by Caringheart - 23 January 2013 at 2:54pm

IP Logged

nospam001
Male Agnostic
Senior Member

Joined: 02 October 2012
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 150

Posted: 23 January 2013 at 5:41pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

the force of good, the force of evil
it's just the structure of the world
don't ask me why

A symmetry so fundamental that even God can't find a way around it, try as He might? So for every bit of 'good' we strive for there must be an equal and opposite amount of 'bad' that pops up somewhere else (past or future).

This theory carries lots of other implications if you stop & think about it.

God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.

IP Logged

	Active Topics Memberlist Calendar Search Help
	Register Login Old Forum

Interfaith Dialogue
IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue

Topic: CHRISTIANS:ACCORDING TO BIBLE,WHO CREATES EVIL?
	Page of 2 Next >>

Author	Message
Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 257	Topic: CHRISTIANS:ACCORDING TO BIBLE,WHO CREATES EVIL? Posted: 06 November 2012 at 4:51am
	Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV) 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
	IP Logged

Salaam_Erin Male Christian Groupie Joined: 30 October 2012 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 41	Posted: 15 November 2012 at 6:24am
	We don't mean moral evil here but circumstantial evil. This is circumstantial evil in the sense of something bad happen to someone, in this case as a result of Divine judgement on them as punishment for their sin. God is saying that He alone has control over everything. The operative words in Hebrew are tov and ra. Another way of translating the passage is, "I form teh light and create darkness, I bring properity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."
	IP Logged

Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 257	Posted: 16 November 2012 at 9:54am
	*Originally posted by Salaam_Erin* We don't mean moral evil here but circumstantial evil. This is circumstantial evil in the sense of something bad happen to someone, in this case as a result of Divine judgement on them as punishment for their sin. God is saying that He alone has control over everything. The operative words in Hebrew are tov and ra. Another way of translating the passage is, "I form teh light and create darkness, I bring properity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." Fair enough
	IP Logged

Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 16 November 2012 at 10:35am
	*Originally posted by Salaam_Erin* We don't mean moral evil here but circumstantial evil. This is circumstantial evil in the sense of something bad happen to someone, in this case as a result of Divine judgement on them as punishment for their sin. God is saying that He alone has control over everything. The operative words in Hebrew are tov and ra. Another way of translating the passage is, "I form teh light and create darkness, I bring properity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." Laughing out very loudly because Christians will always have another 'version' to back up their arguement. Christians will always be in denial.
	IP Logged

Empiricist Male Christian Groupie Joined: 26 February 2012 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 41	Posted: 21 January 2013 at 2:02pm
	I have observed the exact same behavior from Muslims. Can you say anything constructive? God allows evil to exist, without which one could not recognize good. Evil tries to appear good often times truth will emerge. The root and source of all evil is ...... ignorance. (Plato... something like that). I cannot deny this statement. How is it that Jews and Christians are considered the worst filth imaginable according to Allah, yet Allah is forgiving and loving? But Jesus was a prophet from God according to Muslims. So therefore God created a filthy unclean person? This does not make any sense to me. I can only conclude that the Quran is not from God but written by men with political motives, with evil motives from evil influences. Jesus was not evil and his words per the bible do not reflect evil. But the Quran is full of questionable sayings of Muhammed. Yet Muslims are taught that it is OK to kill "nonbelievers" (of what?) and that anyone questioning the Quran can be killed, even if it is your brother! Is that love???
	IP Logged

nospam001 Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 02 October 2012 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 150	Posted: 23 January 2013 at 1:58pm
	*Originally posted by Empiricist* God allows evil to exist, without which one could not recognize good. Is that the only reason? If so then surely there are other, less harmful ways He could arrange things to achieve the same result. There are real killings reported in the news and fictional ones on TV and in books, but the fictional ones often elicit a more powerful response from audiences. Why not use that method instead?
	God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
	IP Logged

Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1330	Posted: 23 January 2013 at 2:53pm
	*Originally posted by nospam001* *Originally posted by Empiricist* God allows evil to exist, without which one could not recognize good. Is that the only reason? If so then surely there are other, less harmful ways He could arrange things to achieve the same result. There are real killings reported in the news and fictional ones on TV and in books, but the fictional ones often elicit a more powerful response from audiences. Why not use that method instead? Yin and yang positive and negative forces the force of good, the force of evil it's just the structure of the world don't ask me why What would happen if a magnet had only a positive force? Can that even happen? Edited by Caringheart - 23 January 2013 at 2:54pm
	IP Logged

nospam001 Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 02 October 2012 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 150	Posted: 23 January 2013 at 5:41pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* the force of good, the force of evil it's just the structure of the world don't ask me why A symmetry so fundamental that even God can't find a way around it, try as He might? So for every bit of 'good' we strive for there must be an equal and opposite amount of 'bad' that pops up somewhere else (past or future). This theory carries lots of other implications if you stop & think about it.
	God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
	IP Logged