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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: JESUS:'...SELL EVERYTHING.....' Post Reply Post New Topic
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2012 at 5:28pm
Placid,
in your reply there was one line that is worthy of understanding and repeating.
"-- Notice, he said, “Good Teacher.” --- He was respectful, --- but did he want to compliment or glorify Jesus? --- Then Jesus directed him to God who is the source of Goodness, and the One to be praised. "

Do you live by that or just say it, or you do not understand what it means?

Do you believe Jesus has a God, or you still insist he was God, even after saying what you said as quoted above?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2012 at 8:58am
Hi Honeto,

Quote: Placid, in your reply there was one line that is worthy of understanding and repeating.
"-- Notice, he said, “Good Teacher.” --- He was respectful, --- but did he want to compliment or glorify Jesus? --- Then Jesus directed him to God who is the source of Goodness, and the One to be praised. "

--- Do you live by that or just say it, or you do not understand what it means?
Do you believe Jesus has a God, or you still insist he was God, even after saying what you said as quoted above?

Response: --- Yes, I believe it and live by it. --- God is God, and there is no other.
--- By now you have likely read in other posts where I have said that the Scripture does not say that Jesus was God, nor did Jesus ever say He was God, --- but, it does say that He came from God. --- Jesus was born on earth so He had a human body, --- but He was indwelt by the Word (Logos) of God, who came from heaven, --- so He had a human body but Divine Soul, and was filled with the Holy Spirit, --- that is why He was Unique, (Like no other).
--- He was CALLED the Son of God, and He usually CALLED Himself the Son of man.

As I pointed out in a Post to Abu, in prophesies, referring to Jesus in the OT, God CALLED Him, “My Servant.” --- In the Gospels God CALLED him, “My Son”--- And Jesus CALLED God, “His heavenly Father,” --- identifying the new “Spiritual Family of God,” --- which true believers are ‘adopted’ into.

After Jesus ascension to heaven in Acts 1, Peter twice, in Acts 3, called Him, “God’s Servant” --- And in the Quran, He is called “God’s Servant.”    


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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2012 at 7:55pm
Anyone that is born, here, on planet X, in heaven or anywhere is same. All, including the ones are born or created have a creator, and that is God Almighty who himself is not created, nor born.
You seem to agree with what I said.
I wonder which Christian denomination do you belong to, or if to none?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 17 December 2012 at 5:59am
Hi Honeto,


Because I have worked for years in 'Interdenominational' services with the various Churches, I really don't quite fit in a category.
My wife and I are members of an Associated Gospel Church in which we serve on committees, and wherever needed.

My studies have taken me above 'denominationalism,' --- that is why I use what is written in Scripture, from both he Bible, and the revelations from God to Muhammad, in the Quran.

Since God has verified that His word is true, --- Who are we to judge God's word?

I believe that if you sometime, do like I did years ago, and set aside all the Church doctrines and traditions, and said, "Alright Lord, I want to learn from Your Scriptures what is true." --- At some point in there I said, "Lord, I yield myself to You. --- Empty me of self and fill me with Your Holy Spirit."

And because of the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit, I answer questions and comments from His word, as He guides me.
--- I am a 'nothing,' I have no credentials, I simply believe God and His word, and His word instructs us to believe in Jesus, whom God sent to 'redeem' His lost world. --- However, there are many more believers like me.

The fascinating thing about the Quran is that the angel Gabriel "'confirms' the former Scriptures as being true. --- So are you able to judge both God, and the angel Gabriel as being wrong about the Scriptures?

If you admit that you learned that from others, or from tradition, that the former Scriptures were 'corrupt,' --- it only proves that you aren't thinking for yourself.

I am sure you have read this in Surah 5:
48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.

Don't you think that our Almighty and Everlasting God, could preserve His word?


Placid




   
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2012 at 1:22pm
Placid said
And because of the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

So delusional i do not know whether to laugh or cry.

placid said
revelations from God to Muhammad, in the Quran.
why are you arguing against Islam and the Quran when you know it is from God?

placid said
The fascinating thing about the Quran is that the angel Gabriel "'confirms' the former Scriptures as being true. --- So are you able to judge both God, and the angel Gabriel as being wrong about the Scriptures? If you admit that you learned that from others, or from tradition, that the former Scriptures were 'corrupt,' --- it only proves that you aren't thinking for yourself. I am sure you have read this in Surah 5: 48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety. Don't you think that our Almighty and Everlasting God, could preserve His word?
Placid, you cannot claim the Quran is false and use it to justify anything, especially christianity/ the Bible.
Also, the Bible is obviously not the word of God/inspired by God. How many contradictions,false claims, lies,absurdities,disgustingness, false prophecies will it take for you to realize that? would you drink a litre of milk with a drop of shit?

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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2012 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Honeto,


Because I have worked for years in 'Interdenominational' services with the various Churches, I really don't quite fit in a category.
My wife and I are members of an Associated Gospel Church in which we serve on committees, and wherever needed.

My studies have taken me above 'denominationalism,' --- that is why I use what is written in Scripture, from both he Bible, and the revelations from God to Muhammad, in the Quran.

Since God has verified that His word is true, --- Who are we to judge God's word?

I believe that if you sometime, do like I did years ago, and set aside all the Church doctrines and traditions, and said, "Alright Lord, I want to learn from Your Scriptures what is true." --- At some point in there I said, "Lord, I yield myself to You. --- Empty me of self and fill me with Your Holy Spirit."

And because of the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit, I answer questions and comments from His word, as He guides me.
--- I am a 'nothing,' I have no credentials, I simply believe God and His word, and His word instructs us to believe in Jesus, whom God sent to 'redeem' His lost world. --- However, there are many more believers like me.

The fascinating thing about the Quran is that the angel Gabriel "'confirms' the former Scriptures as being true. --- So are you able to judge both God, and the angel Gabriel as being wrong about the Scriptures?

If you admit that you learned that from others, or from tradition, that the former Scriptures were 'corrupt,' --- it only proves that you aren't thinking for yourself.

I am sure you have read this in Surah 5:
48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.

Don't you think that our Almighty and Everlasting God, could preserve His word?


Placid




   


Placid,
learning never ends, I am a firm believer in that. I remind that to myself and my children and others that all we know we learn from others.
I also believe that if we all were to receive direct revelations from God, we will have billions of various scriptures and revelations ideas and religions. And we would not have heard of God sending prophets since the beginning. There is a reason for that. Why did God chose certain men above others to be teachers, prophets and guides to mankind? If we think and reflect the answer is easy. So we could be guided in the direction God wanted us to, not where we could lead ourselves, we simply do not have that capacity thus we come to realize that it is safe to rely on instructions and guidance our Creator sent us and who can know us better than Him.
It is true that the Quran tells us that God sent books before it. In fact, it tells us that there were many books, prophets and messengers sent before to various people in various times. Man was never without devine guidance since his beginning. We are also told that that guidance was always the same, that religion was always the same. Each time people will reject or leave the ways God want them to live, the vacuum will be filled by sending a new prophet with a pure word of God, repeating the same message in its purity so all have a chance to it.
It is true that Torah and Injeel were sent by God for their times, and as their state depleted in the hands of its holders as documented in what we now know as the Bible, the vacuum was created for a pure word of God to guide those who seek His guidance.
The Quran documents just like the Bible that the words of the previous scriptures were changed, some forgotten (left out) and so on in the hands of it's care takers.
The word of God, in it's pure form was sent to mankind in the form of the Quran. It is a complete guidance for those who seek guidance from their maker.

The problems with what we know call the Bible are numerous, but a few points are sufficient to mention here in order to show it's state. 1-God, between the OT and NT there is great difference of idea who is God. The followers of OT now (the Jews) have a completely different belief of who God is vs. the followers of the NT (the Christians) have a completely new and different idea of who God is.
These two different ideas about God coming out of a single book called the Bible is the single largest proof against it's authenticity.
We cannot simply try to mix all the beliefs and think that we are doing the right thing. We may be making everyone happy, but not our maker. In Islam we do the other way, the first purpose of our life is to please our maker, and how we know he is pleased? He has told us that it is the acceptance of the truth by us that pleases Him.

We also need to understand how come there are so many different beliefs? They are branch offs of the original. Just like if you start out at the smallest branch of a tree and in order to find its root you will get to it through one trunk from where all the branches come out.

Hasan   



39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 22 December 2012 at 12:42pm
Hi Mahdi,

Quote: Placid, you cannot claim the Quran is false and use it to justify anything, especially christianity/ the Bible.
Also, the Bible is obviously not the word of God/inspired by God.

Response: --- I have said this before, --- I have the highest regard for Muhammad and the Quran and have not claimed it to be false.
--- When I first came on a Muslim website, some years ago, I said I was interested in learning about Islam. --- A moderator at that time said, “If you want to learn about Islam, read the Quran.”

I had a copy of the Pickthall Translation among my books, --- which gives the history and calling of Muhammad by the vision of the angel Gabriel.
Mr Pickthall gives an intro to each Surah, and the time it was written, which was very helpful. --- I read the Quran and wrote a few notes on most Surahs. About half of it contains stories and Scriptures from the OT and the Gospels, so I believe them.

I have asked some on this forum to tell me what is written in the Quran that we need to believe, that is not in the former Scriptures which were ‘confirmed’ in Surah 3:
3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Perhaps you could tell me that.
--- You have learned to say, “The Bible is corrupted,” --- but if the angel Gabriel ‘confirmed’ it as true in 600 AD after it was approved and translated into many languagesover the years before that, --- you are disagreeing with the revelations given to Muhammad, therefore you are disagreeing with what you say is God’s word, the Quran

Muhammad’s first wife, Khadijah, and her elderly cousin were Christians and he lived not far from Mecca so no one knows how many trips Muhammad made to visit this cousin. One of the first testimonies given as to what Muslims believed, is the first part of Surah 19.   

When I came on IslamiCity I saw all the questions you asked, that no Christian had answered, so I systematically started answering from the Scriptures, which have prompted some good discussions.
--- You see, --- if you asked these from the Scriptures, which you didn’t believe in the first place, --- it seems pointless to expect you to believe them when the Scriptural answers are given. --- However, other readers may do some studying for themselves.

--- I have made comparisons from the Quran and follow the guidelines, 3, and 4:
3. A generally pleasant demeanor and cordiality in language is requested during discussions.   
4. When discussing issues dealing with Islam, please support your comments with the Quran or Sunnah.

--- Have I ever said anything negative about the Quran? --- Have I not always included Surah references from the Quran as requested?

Thank you for responding with your opinions because you have rarely responded on the posts you have started.



Placid

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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2012 at 7:12am
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Mahdi,

Quote: Placid, you cannot claim the Quran is false and use it to justify anything, especially christianity/ the Bible.
Also, the Bible is obviously not the word of God/inspired by God.

Response: --- I have said this before, --- I have the highest regard for Muhammad and the Quran and have not claimed it to be false.
--- When I first came on a Muslim website, some years ago, I said I was interested in learning about Islam. --- A moderator at that time said, “If you want to learn about Islam, read the Quran.”

I had a copy of the Pickthall Translation among my books, --- which gives the history and calling of Muhammad by the vision of the angel Gabriel.
Mr Pickthall gives an intro to each Surah, and the time it was written, which was very helpful. --- I read the Quran and wrote a few notes on most Surahs. About half of it contains stories and Scriptures from the OT and the Gospels, so I believe them.

I have asked some on this forum to tell me what is written in the Quran that we need to believe, that is not in the former Scriptures which were ‘confirmed’ in Surah 3:
3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Perhaps you could tell me that.
--- You have learned to say, “The Bible is corrupted,” --- but if the angel Gabriel ‘confirmed’ it as true in 600 AD after it was approved and translated into many languagesover the years before that, --- you are disagreeing with the revelations given to Muhammad, therefore you are disagreeing with what you say is God’s word, the Quran

Muhammad’s first wife, Khadijah, and her elderly cousin were Christians and he lived not far from Mecca so no one knows how many trips Muhammad made to visit this cousin. One of the first testimonies given as to what Muslims believed, is the first part of Surah 19.   

When I came on IslamiCity I saw all the questions you asked, that no Christian had answered, so I systematically started answering from the Scriptures, which have prompted some good discussions.
--- You see, --- if you asked these from the Scriptures, which you didn’t believe in the first place, --- it seems pointless to expect you to believe them when the Scriptural answers are given. --- However, other readers may do some studying for themselves.

--- I have made comparisons from the Quran and follow the guidelines, 3, and 4:
3. A generally pleasant demeanor and cordiality in language is requested during discussions.   
4. When discussing issues dealing with Islam, please support your comments with the Quran or Sunnah.

--- Have I ever said anything negative about the Quran? --- Have I not always included Surah references from the Quran as requested?

Thank you for responding with your opinions because you have rarely responded on the posts you have started.



Placid






when i ask questions about the Bible/christianity, i do it to point out the things which make it impossible for me to believe it. i do not think i have quoted the Bible and refuted it with the Quran i.e the Bible says a and Quran says b, therefore Bible is wrong. most of the times it is just things that are contradictory within the Bible itself, or are just plain absurd by themselves. If the Quran was endorsing the whole Bible as it is today, i would not believe in it too. now i think we can go back to the topic at hand.
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