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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2013 at 12:38pm
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by Webber

As for Titus 2:13, read the King James version, or earlier.
IMHO English translations/transliterations since then have added the beliefs of the "scholar" through subtle changes and punctuation. I won't even argue NIV and this verse is one of the reasons why.
 
Go ahead, read the verse in the KJV and tell me if it reads the same.
Now you know Paul was not a trinitarian.


Well, well, well!  We have a "KJV-only" Christian on the forum!  The wording in the KJV is certainly different.  But that opens up a whole new can of worms for you.  Now you have to explain the following verse:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)

This is from the KJV.  Do tell how a non-trinitarian such as yourself (bravo by the way) explains this verse which clearly refers to a trinitarian doctrine. 

P.S. I am fully aware of the controversy surrounding this verse, as I mentioned above to Placid.

Originally posted by Webber

Just wondering...
Genocide. Is it really evil to kill babies? Does the Quran say so? I don't want any "It is recorded that..." The Quran is your divine book. If you don't find it then it is only your opinion, regardless of how many agree with you.
 

LOL Oh boy.  We have another Christian who wants to tell Muslims what sources they can and cannot use!  Sorry to disappoint you Sheik Webber, but Muslims have two primary sources, the Quran and the Sunnah.  You don't get to tell us which we may use.  Having said this, may I present the following:

1.  The Quran actually prohibits the killing of children for fear of poverty:

"Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin." (17:31) 

2.  It also prohibits the pagan Arab practice of killing newborn girls:

"When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned - For what crime she was killed;" (80:8-9)

3.  The Sunnah also explicitly states that it is forbidden to kill women and children:

"It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children." (Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4320)

So Sheik Webber, both the Quran and Sunnah prohibit the killing of children and babies, whether it is due to a fear of poverty or or during a war.

Originally posted by Webber

Nothing wrong with humanitarian views, and it's obvious we all have them now but it's hardly fair to force humanitarians into justifying genocide thousands of years ago.


The problem is that there is nothing "humanitarian" about genocide.  Not one Christian has stated that they find the genocide mentioned in the Bible as evil.  Rather, they have all tried to come up with excuses, whereas others have stated that they accept that the slaughter happened but do not understand why it was allowed.

Originally posted by Webber

Idol worshippers had how many laws? Where was their morality? If they were a nation with aides what use would it be to preserve the children? Were those "poor" oxen and donkeys the subject of their worship?


Ah, more excuse making.  What a shock...

How many of the nations that were slaughtered had AIDS?  Confused

Originally posted by Webber

Rather than taking it upon yourselves to decide God would never do such a thing, how about why would God do it? Problem is, there is no explanation given. Does not mean there wasn't one.


Actually, there was an "explanation" given:

"But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God." (Deuteronomy 20:16-18)

As you can see, there are two reasons given for the slaughter:

1.  The land on which these nations lived was given to the Israelites as an "inheritance", and,

2.  They were to be killed so that they would not entice the Israelites to sin.

So apparently, these nations were obviously in the wrong place at the wrong time and were also being help responsible for the possibility that the Israelites might sin because of them.  Never mind that if the Israelites did sin, it would be their own fault. 

Originally posted by Webber

BTW, the Bible does not glorify genocide, it records it.


The Bible does not simply "record" genocide.  It states that it was commanded by God.  Even prior to the start of the genocide, the people inhabiting the land were threatened with annihilation:

"The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina.

15 Then the dukes of Edom shall be amazed; the mighty men of Moab, trembling shall take hold upon them; all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away.

16 Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O Lord, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.

17 Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O Lord, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established." (Exodus 15:14-17)

Originally posted by Webber

Muslims say it's an honour to die in the service of Allah. Allah says C4 and ball bearings is not what I had in mind.


LOL Well, one thing is clear from these discussions.  Many of you Christians are not very original!  Most of the other Christians who have posted on this thread have also tried to divert the topic from the Bible's stories of genocide to what some Muslims do in the present day.  Thus, Webber takes the same route.

As I showed above, Islam categorically prohibits killing civilians.  It only allows fighting in self-defense and only against those who wage war against us.  Therefore, those Muslims who die fighting against their oppressors are martyrs who will be in Allah's presence in Paradise, inshaAllah.
    

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2013 at 1:10pm
Hi Islam,

Quote: By the way, I already pointed out before that the name "Jesus" does not mean "savior". I don't know where you are getting this from. It actually means "God saves" or "Yahweh saves". Put another way, it means "The Lord is Salvation"

Response: --- This is plainly stated in Matthew 1:
21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
--- So when you say, “the Lord is salvation,” --- then you focus on the One who fulfilled the role of bringing salvation to mankind.
Then you can say “The Lord (Jesus) is salvation.”
--- If you say, “God saves” then you are confirming the verse that says, “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.”
Then if you say, “God saves,” and “The Lord (Jesus) is Salvation, --- you might get around to the faulty conclusion, that Jesus and God are One and the Same.

It says in John 3:16 “For God so loved the (people of) the world that He gave His only begotten (Unique) Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him (Jesus) might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him (Jesus) is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

--- (Notice that this is what God said in the Scripture, so if you disagree with God’s word, then your argument is with Him, not with me.

--- So, “God saves,” or “The Lord is Salvation” verifies that Jesus was the Savior, because “The Salvation of God, came through Jesus.”


Placid


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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2013 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by Webber

As for Titus 2:13, read the King James version, or earlier.
IMHO English translations/transliterations since then have added the beliefs of the "scholar" through subtle changes and punctuation. I won't even argue NIV and this verse is one of the reasons why.
 
Go ahead, read the verse in the KJV and tell me if it reads the same.
Now you know Paul was not a trinitarian.


Well, well, well!  We have a "KJV-only" Christian on the forum!  The wording in the KJV is certainly different.  But that opens up a whole new can of worms for you.  Now you have to explain the following verse:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)

This is from the KJV.  Do tell how a non-trinitarian such as yourself (bravo by the way) explains this verse which clearly refers to a trinitarian doctrine. 

P.S. I am fully aware of the controversy surrounding this verse, as I mentioned above to Placid.
 
Well, if you are fully aware of the arguments of both sides we don't really have to go over it, not to mention it is a typical Muslim strategy to go off topic in an effort to flood Christians with questions. Of course they have to answer them all right or else. It's a High five, down low, too slow, ha you loose, Christians all wrong, Muslims all right attitude that comes next. Let's not forget, you are not here to learn. By the same token, I am not hear to learn about the typical Muslim bias. Any Islamic website will give you that, which is in contrast to the Muslims I asssociate with, work with, and have worshipped with. Yes, I said worshipped with.
 
 At least you know the "trinity" didn't include Mary, or did it? So it's not your amount of knowledge thats flawed, just your opinion. It's not your fault you can't read what's written, you've been told what to believe.

Originally posted by Webber

Just wondering...
Genocide. Is it really evil to kill babies? Does the Quran say so? I don't want any "It is recorded that..." The Quran is your divine book. If you don't find it then it is only your opinion, regardless of how many agree with you.
 

LOL Oh boy.  We have another Christian who wants to tell Muslims what sources they can and cannot use!  Sorry to disappoint you Sheik Webber, but Muslims have two primary sources, the Quran and the Sunnah.  You don't get to tell us which we may use.
 
If you really are that knowledgable then you would also know Muhammad once said "Don't quote me on anything that isn't in the Quran. You also have hadith. Some start with "It is recorded that" and some should start with Once upon a time. Problem is you can't tell the difference. Even the Sunnah is not officially considered as the Divine words of God. These things only add confusion to Muslims and those they are trying to teach.
 
 
Having said this, may I present the following:

1.  The Quran actually prohibits the killing of children for fear of poverty:

"Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin." (17:31) 

2.  It also prohibits the pagan Arab practice of killing newborn girls:

"When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned - For what crime she was killed;" (80:8-9)

3.  The Sunnah also explicitly states that it is forbidden to kill women and children:

"It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children." (Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4320)

So Sheik Webber, both the Quran and Sunnah prohibit the killing of children and babies, whether it is due to a fear of poverty or or during a war.
 
Yeah, I get the don't kill your own kids for fear of poverty, but missed the "during a war" part. Get the feeling you just added that for effect.

Originally posted by Webber

Nothing wrong with humanitarian views, and it's obvious we all have them now but it's hardly fair to force humanitarians into justifying genocide thousands of years ago.


The problem is that there is nothing "humanitarian" about genocide.  Not one Christian has stated that they find the genocide mentioned in the Bible as evil.  Rather, they have all tried to come up with excuses, whereas others have stated that they accept that the slaughter happened but do not understand why it was allowed.
 
Of course there's nothing humanitarian about genocide, the question was is it evil. The next question would be, Is God a humanitarian? God does not look at human life the way we humanitarians do. Is it a good idea to squeeze God into our modern day ideals?

Originally posted by Webber

Idol worshippers had how many laws? Where was their morality? If they were a nation with aides what use would it be to preserve the children? Were those "poor" oxen and donkeys the subject of their worship?


Ah, more excuse making.  What a shock...

How many of the nations that were slaughtered had AIDS?  Confused

Originally posted by Webber

Rather than taking it upon yourselves to decide God would never do such a thing, how about why would God do it? Problem is, there is no explanation given. Does not mean there wasn't one.

Actually, there was an "explanation" given:

"But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God." (Deuteronomy 20:16-18)

As you can see, there are two reasons given for the slaughter:

1.  The land on which these nations lived was given to the Israelites as an "inheritance", and,

2.  They were to be killed so that they would not entice the Israelites to sin.

So apparently, these nations were obviously in the wrong place at the wrong time and were also being help responsible for the possibility that the Israelites might sin because of them.  Never mind that if the Israelites did sin, it would be their own fault. 
 
Don't be shocked, how many didn't have aids, or STDs/we. Not excuses, possibilities unknown for lack of records. Wrong place, wrong time, inheritance of land is a gimme. Add to that a nation bent on doing everything wrong every time God, (or Moses) turn around makes me wonder why God let them last so long.

Originally posted by Webber

BTW, the Bible does not glorify genocide, it records it.


The Bible does not simply "record" genocide.  It states that it was commanded by God.  Even prior to the start of the genocide, the people inhabiting the land were threatened with annihilation:

"The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina.

15 Then the dukes of Edom shall be amazed; the mighty men of Moab, trembling shall take hold upon them; all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away.

16 Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O Lord, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.

17 Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O Lord, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established." (Exodus 15:14-17)[/quote]

So it's recorded that God commands it. How is that glorified? None of us know all the reason, nor the mind of God. You were expecting me to come up with why our humanitarian God would do such a thing?
 
 
Originally posted by Webber

Muslims say it's an honour to die in the service of Allah. Allah says C4 and ball bearings is not what I had in mind.

[quote]
LOL Well, one thing is clear from these discussions.  Many of you Christians are not very original!  Most of the other Christians who have posted on this thread have also tried to divert the topic from the Bible's stories of genocide to what some Muslims do in the present day.  Thus, Webber takes the same route.
Yeah, I always like to toss those things in just to see where people go with it. Thanks for not going off the deep end, :)

[quote]As I showed above, Islam categorically prohibits killing civilians.  It only allows fighting in self-defense and only against those who wage war against us.  Therefore, those Muslims who die fighting against their oppressors are martyrs who will be in Allah's presence in Paradise, inshaAllah.
 
With 72 virgins...I like tossing that in the mix too.
 
Actually you showed me where it says don't kill your own, nothing in the references said anything about war. If you want to believe it's between the lines it's up to you. Not going to condemn you for it, after all, none of these discussions should be the difference between heaven and hell for any of us.
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2013 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Webber



LOL@ 16 pages of contempt for Christians not giving the "right" answers.
 
As for Titus 2:13, read the King James version, or earlier.
IMHO English translations/transliterations since then have added the beliefs of the "scholar" through subtle changes and punctuation. I won't even argue NIV and this verse is one of the reasons why.
 
Go ahead, read the verse in the KJV and tell me if it reads the same.
Now you know Paul was not a trinitarian.
 
Just wondering...
Genocide. Is it really evil to kill babies? Does the Quran say so? I don't want any "It is recorded that..." The Quran is your divine book. If you don't find it then it is only your opinion, regardless of how many agree with you.
 
Nothing wrong with humanitarian views, and it's obvious we all have them now but it's hardly fair to force humanitarians into justifying genocide thousands of years ago.
 
Idol worshippers had how many laws? Where was their morality? If they were a nation with aides what use would it be to preserve the children? Were those "poor" oxen and donkeys the subject of their worship?
 
Rather than taking it upon yourselves to decide God would never do such a thing, how about why would God do it? Problem is, there is no explanation given. Does not mean there wasn't one.
 
BTW, the Bible does not glorify genocide, it records it.
 
Muslims say it's an honour to die in the service of Allah. Allah says C4 and ball bearings is not what I had in mind.
 
 
 
 
 
 


Weber,
In Islam we know God as "The Just". God binds us to be just. God forbids us to take a life unless be by way of justice, i.e. a killer's, or one's who cause mischief on earth.
What we are talking about is that in OT God is quoted to have given commands to those who are "God's people" to kill even babies and infants, even more to kills animals, trees and so on.
We know that God has everything in His control and command but unjustified killings of innocent ones is something God forbids, and it is not the qualities of God to be unjust or unkind as portrayed by the OT and are a problem for anyone who claims that God is Just and loving.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2013 at 2:56pm
Just got done watching a program which talked about how the book of 1 Samuel from the talmud was more of the epic hero tale, embellished for effect.
While the same story is told in a much different way in the book of Judges.

We're all connected to our tainted pasts. The point is whether or not we evolve.
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 03 January 2013 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by honeto


Weber,
In Islam we know God as "The Just". God binds us to be just. God forbids us to take a life unless be by way of justice, i.e. a killer's, or one's who cause mischief on earth.
What we are talking about is that in OT God is quoted to have given commands to those who are "God's people" to kill even babies and infants, even more to kills animals, trees and so on.
We know that God has everything in His control and command but unjustified killings of innocent ones is something God forbids, and it is not the qualities of God to be unjust or unkind as portrayed by the OT and are a problem for anyone who claims that God is Just and loving.
Hasan
 
Hi Honeto, I know exactly what you are saying. The trouble is we, in our own minds could never justify genocide, how could we have a God that commanded it? Best answer is, we don't know. We're talking about the same God who blew up two ajoining cities and destroyed everyone except Lot and who he could get out in time. We're talking about a God who covered the earth with water and destroyed everything except who and what Noah could get into an ark.
 
There's a really good chance God does not look at human life in the same way we do. Go figure, we only get one.
 
Two things:
I don't believe that every reference that could be construed as God in the OT is always God Almighty. God created too many angels and servents to do all the work Himself.
Secondly, it also depends on how the witnesses and author understood the event as to how it was recorded.
 
So what is the final verdict on this? Do we insist God plays by our rules and this scripture must be a complete fabrication? Do we take it for what it's worth and hope it never happens to us? Do we gather around the wrath of God and go looking for those He might like destroyed?
 
I just thought it entertaining the Christians were responsible for answering.
 
 
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 03 January 2013 at 5:07pm
Hi Webber,

Quote: As for Titus 2:13, read the King James version, or earlier.
Go ahead, read the verse in the KJV and tell me if it reads the same.

Response: --- I wonder why you are suggesting others read a certain verse without writing it out and making the point you are suggesting.
--- It is written plainly:
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
--- (The word ‘our’ was in the manuscripts, from which the Latin Vulgate was translated before 400 AD, --- the evidence is that it says “our Savior” in the Douay version, which was translated in 1600, from the Latin Vulgate. --- As well, the King James, which was translated from Greek Manuscripts, and published in 1611, says, “our Saviour.”)

There are depths of meaning to this verse that the unbelieving will not understand anyway. --- But if we do make a comparison to the NIV, we can understand that there is an extra emphasis on the word ‘glory.’
--- The first thing is to notice that verses 12 to 14 are one sentence. --- In the KJV it separates the verses with a semicolon after world: --- and after Jesus Christ; --- (meaning: --- “A semicolon is used to separate complete thoughts within a sentence”) --- and verse 14 then identifies Him, --- ‘Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us.’

Compare the NIV:
12 --- It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, --- eager to do what is good.

--- Notice: the NIV uses commas, instead of semicolons to separate the verses, (even adding an important comma after Savior).--- So, if we remove the numbers which were not in the Greek Manuscripts, and put the emphasis on “glory”, where the NIV places it, --- it would read like this from verse --- NIV, 11-14:

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. --- It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the “glory” of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

Notice: --- While the KJV uses the term ‘glorious appearing’, --- the NIV emphasizes the noun ‘glory’, --- when it says, “The appearing of the GLORY of our great God and Savior--- do you see the difference?
Was it the ‘glorious appearing of God (who can’t be seen by men)? --- Or was it the ‘appearance of the Glory of God,’ --- through Jesus Christ who can be seen by men? --- And who we look forward to seeing in the ‘finality’ of the age.

--- Since God cannot be seen, His GLORY was revealed through Jesus Christ. --- Look at these verses that John, who was an eyewitness, wrote, in John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten (Unique, One of a kind) Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared (revealed) Him.

Compare this also from the ‘J B Phillips,’ (a good contemporary version), 11-14
For the grace of God, which can save every man, has now become known, and it teaches us to have no more to do with godlessness or the desires of this world but to live, here and now, responsible, honourable and God-fearing lives. And while we live this life we hope and wait for the glorious denouement of the Great God and of Jesus Christ our saviour. For he gave himself for us all, that he might rescue us from all our evil ways and make for himself a people of his own, clean and pure, with our hearts set upon living a life that is good.

Do you like that word --- “ denouement”? --- It means: ‘the unraveling of the mystery’ or ‘the final revealing’ --- of the great God, and of Jesus Christ our Saviour. --- For He gave Himself for us all ---.
--- This “Final Revealing” will be when Jesus will return.


Placid

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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 03 January 2013 at 7:29pm
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by Placid

Response: --- This is plainly stated in Matthew 1:
21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
--- So when you say, “the Lord is salvation,” --- then you focus on the One who fulfilled the role of bringing salvation to mankind.
Then you can say “The Lord (Jesus) is salvation.”
--- If you say, “God saves” then you are confirming the verse that says, “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.”
Then if you say, “God saves,” and “The Lord (Jesus) is Salvation, --- you might get around to the faulty conclusion, that Jesus and God are One and the Same.


All this shows is that the author of Matthew either did not know the etymology of the name or he deliberately changed the meaning. 

Your claims above once again point to your violation of the 1st commandment.  You say "The Lord (Jesus) is salvation", but that is not what the name means!  It literally means "God is salvation".  God is "the Lord" in "The Lord is salvation", so how can you replace Him with Jesus? 

Originally posted by Placid

It says in John 3:16 “For God so loved the (people of) the world that He gave His only begotten (Unique) Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him (Jesus) might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him (Jesus) is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

--- (Notice that this is what God said in the Scripture, so if you disagree with God’s word, then your argument is with Him, not with me.
  

I don't consider the NT to be "scripture".  It is not "God's Word". 

Originally posted by Placid

--- So, “God saves,” or “The Lord is Salvation” verifies that Jesus was the Savior, because “The Salvation of God, came through Jesus.”
 

I have no idea where you are getting this shaky logic from.  First, you made a false claim about the name of the name "Jesus".  Then, when you were refuted, you resorted to convoluted logic to make Jesus the "Lord" in the meaning of his name.  What?! 

As I said, salvation only comes from God.  Even Jesus' name says that clearly.  Yet you still insist that Jesus is your "savior" when in reality, it is God who is "Savior". 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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