Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: CHRISTIANS:WOULD YOU KILL A SUCKLING? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 19 Next >>
Author Message
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1925
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2012 at 5:45pm
"Basically, you are saying "it was in the past; what's done is done".

Actually I am saying to be sure you learn from the new covenant not to act in this way... the way of the old testament.
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1925
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2012 at 5:49pm
in your own words(islamispeace)...

You are not a representative of anything other than Islam, so why do you presume to speak on behalf of other religion?
__________________________________

In my case, I am seeking answers to my questions about the teachings of Muhammad, and the prevalent beliefs of those who call themselves muslim.


Edited by Caringheart - 12 December 2012 at 8:53pm
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1925
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2012 at 5:53pm
"Moreover, none of this explains why "God" commanded the Israelites to kill infants."

You are correct, there is no answer for it.  Only God can give the answer.
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1925
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2012 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

     

What does the Bible say on this matter? Wink 


In the Bible it says, 'satan do not tempt me[by asking for shows of proof], you do not put the Lord God to the test'.  Satan tried Jesus in the desert by provocating for him to give proofs of his God.
Jesus was clear that there are no proofs to be given since they would not be believed anyway.

Two questions...
- So what sources do you read that you think are so reliable and unbiased?  Do you read from both sides?  I do.
- Why is it so hard for you to have a civilized conversation with someone about your faith?  You have expressed your doubts left and right, but have I been uncivil in answering your doubts?


Edited by Caringheart - 10 December 2012 at 6:25pm
IP IP Logged
Placid
Male Christian
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01 November 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 231
Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 11 December 2012 at 6:39am
Hi Islam,

Quote: So then what are you? You say that Jesus is not God. Well, this is the belief of the majority of "Christians". Are you a Unitarian?

Response: --- What am I? --- I became a Christian, --- that means I accepted Jesus as my Savior many years ago, in a Baptist Church, for which I thank God, and the caring people that witnessed to me about the Love of God and His provision for salvation through Jesus Christ.

--- Now since you ask I will speak freely of what Christians believe, --- and it is through Faith in God, and an awareness of His presence with us, that gives the assurance of Eternal life, (which is also verified to Christians in the Quran, Surah 3:55).
However, I began to read and study the Bible and I learned about the faith of Abraham, our Patriarch. --- Then the many other Prophets and teachers.
In studying the NT, I realized that faith and knowledge were just the beginning. To really know God’s will for my life, I needed to surrender my will completely to God and take Jesus as my Lord, as well as my Savior.

--- To take Him as our Lord means that we become obedient to His teaching, which comes from ‘the Sermon on the Mount,’ Matthew 5, 6, and 7, --- and the two commandments to “Love God with all your heart,” --- And ‘love your neighbor as yourself’. --- A single verse that expresses this instruction is John 5:
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him (God) who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
--- “He who HEARS My word. --- The word ‘HEAR’ has the deeper meaning of --- ‘understanding and obeying’ Jesus’ teaching.
In dedicating myself to follow Jesus as He said to His disciples and Apostles, “Follow Me,” --- so I have done that.

--- It is really like your signature verse:
--- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for God, the Cherisher of the Worlds.” (Surat al-Anaam: 162).
--- That is true dedication, so do you have the assurance of eternal life, as the Scriptures say we can have? --- (I’m not inviting you to be like me, --- but how are you in your present level of faith in God?) --- Can you agree with what I say next?

I would like to make a comparison --- to becoming a true Muslim.
I understand that Islam means ‘Surrender,’ or ‘Submission,’ according to Surah 5:
3 This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
--- (This seems to have been ‘imbedded’ in this verse later, because it does not suit the context, and it seems that it was revealed to Muhammad in year 10 of the Hijrah, after the victory had been won over idolatry, --- shortly before his death.)
--- And this referred to the Faith of Abraham, as in Surah 2:
132 The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him).
Yusuf Ali: 132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! God hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."
--- (So to follow the Faith of Abraham makes one a ‘believer’ --- and you don’t need labels, because that tries to ‘categorize’ you, --- The word “Christian’ really means ‘Christ’s one.’

--- I have worked most of my time in inter-denominational Church groups. I just like to say I am a Bible believing, Evangelical, --- which you may understand in the following things I say.

--- I became fascinated by the Quran, because it gives the same pattern of conversion that the Gospel does.
The first point is to Believe in God as Sovereign and Almighty. Then to believe in His word, as it says in Surah 4:
162 But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was revealed before thee: And (especially) those who establish regular prayer and practise regular charity and believe in God and in the Last Day: To them shall We soon give a great reward.
163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Apostles after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.
164   Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not; - and to Moses God spoke direct; -
165 Apostles who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the apostles, should have no plea against God: For God is Exalted in Power, Wise.
166 But God beareth witness that what He hath sent unto thee He hath sent from His (own) knowledge, and the angels bear witness: But enough is God for a witness.
167 Those who reject Faith and keep off (men) from the way of God, have verily strayed far, far away from the Path.
--- (So, --- to know God’s will for our lives, we have to believe these words that speak of the inspiration of the Prophets, and receive this same ‘inspiration ‘ by the Holy Spirit, before we are in this realm of Faith as a believer.

So the first part in Islam would be to Believe in God and His word, and His Prophets and their Prophecies and fulfillment, --- and pray personally to God.
--- Then we are ready for the next step, --- which is a familiar word to you, but used with improper meaning. ---

--- The word is ‘Jihad,’ --- which means ‘struggle.’
This is the inner struggle to yield one’s will to God's will and give Him full control of our lives.
Therefore, we make Him the Master of our days, and our destiny.
Then one would be a Muslim, --- A ‘Surrendered one,’ --- would they not?

One more comparison from the Quran in Surah 3:
52 But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him).
Yusuf Ali: 52 When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) God?" Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: We believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
53 Our Lord (God)! -We believe in that which Thou hast revealed and we follow him (Jesus) whom Thou hast sent. Enroll us among those who witness (to the truth).

--- So I am a believer and ‘follower’ of Jesus like the Apostles were (and by God’s grace, will continue to be surrendered unto Him).
--- And finally, this last verse that follows gives the assurance:
3:55   Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection:

(Sorry, it is a little long, but you were asking. --- Would you also like to relate your testimony so that we might know your experience of Faith as well?)


Placid

IP IP Logged
Salaam_Erin
Male Christian
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 30 October 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 41
Quote Salaam_Erin Replybullet Posted: 11 December 2012 at 9:05am
Islamispeace, according to the Qur'an the human race were wiped out except for Noah and his family.  Therefore Allah kills babies too- this is the same story that is in the Bible. 

By the way, the genocide started with Moses (pbuh) and was continued by his successors, including Joshua.  What was that you said about reading the Bible carefully to see what it actually says?  

It was judgement, not genocide- you are ignoring the fact that Rhab and her family and the Gibeonites were spared, ignoring the large amounts of Canaanites exiled in Egypt who came with the Israelites, that it was a war of liberation against quisling kings and their supporters in a part of the Egyptian Empire, that the Israelites only destroyed three cities, they never went through with the campaign, they were not warring against the Canaanites outside of Canaan, God upon seeing the lack of following through of Joshua's disabling operations (not acts of genocide), withdrew His support and let them mix to test them, including letting the bronze age weaponry of the Israelites not overcome the iron age weapons of their enemies.  This points to God, although giving the command of conquest and driving the Canaanites out (not genocide), really intended to let things go when the Israelites did not follow things throughm knowing it would test them and also prove to the world that our sin and failure is so complete that not even a human-run theocracy works.  God also warned the Israelites He would do to them what He did to the Canaanites.  This He did, in 721 BC, 587 BC and AD 70.  And yet the Jews weren't wiped out.  If the Canaanites were so wiped out, explain how Jesus spoke with a Canaanite woman 1200 years or so later.  As for the death of babies, what about babies who die naturally?  Don't you believe as a Muslim in predestination?  Also, one other factor needs to be taken into consideration.  God alone knows how a baby is going to turn out when he or she grows up.  The only thing which could at all justify the death of a baby is if God knows that the survival of the human reace depends on it, considering His foreknowledge of how someone will turn out and what they will do.  (Hitler was a baby.)  Also, unpopular as this is going to be, you believe that man was conceived and born sinless.  We Christians do not.  We were born in sin and shapen in iniquity.  Paradoxically, God was acting in mercy.  Besides, as you read the Old Testament on, God is vindicated by His actions.  The true Faith was only secured by God's ruthless treatment of the Jews in 587 BC, chastening the Jews and creating enough people of faith to jutify God coming amongst them as a Jew.  Finally, given the ritual abuse of children, babies right from the beginning due to that abuse were already traumatised and corrupted. 

Also, I would advise you to read what is said in Genesis about the Nephilim, as well as Jude's letter in the New Testament.  The 'sons of God' sinned and came down from Heaven and took the daughters of men, and had children, who were giants and conquerors.  the 12 spies sent by Moses reported that the people in Canaan were giants and to them the spies were just grasshoppers.  It seems that the people the Israelites were fighting weren't even fully human.  And before you mock, remember you believe in jinn.  ;o)   


Edited by Salaam_Erin - 11 December 2012 at 9:17am
IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1812
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 11 December 2012 at 5:52pm
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by Bunter

It is a sad tactic of yours to denigrate or insult others? Do you think that a valid form of argument?


Why don't you try to answer the question? 

How am I "denigrating" or "insulting" you by labeling the killing of babies as "evil"?  Are you that thin-skinned that you get "insulted" so easily? 

Originally posted by Bunter

There is no change of topic here but an attempt to ask you if the God of the OLd Testament is the same as the Allah of Islam? Hence. the question about Allah burning off skin and splashing water as hot as molten metal in peoples faces for eternity - so what is your answer?
 

LOL This issue has already been dealt with.  Comparing the killing of infants by the Israelites at God's alleged behest to God's punishment of sinners in Hell is a ridiculous comparison.  One is done by humans.  The other is done by God.  Do you really think God would command believers to slaughter babies?   

In addition, your attempt to compare "the God of the Old Testament" to "the Allah of Islam" because of the latter's punishment of sinners is laughable given that the "God of the New Testament" also punishes sinners in Hell!

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”"  (Revelation 21:8)


So, what's your point?

Originally posted by Bunter

If we are talking about about the God of the Bible lets look at your item "God does not command evil" and I think I might agree with that but the question is who DECIDES what is evil? For example, Biblically the injunction is for one man and one wife so any God who commands anything different is commanding evil. Charity is indeed good but where does it originate - well the Bible in 1 Corinthians 13 tells us that it originates in or out of love - so love sees no race or creed and give to anyone in need - is this how you see it also?


This is the typical excuse I am getting from you guys.  You ask "who decides what is evil".  God does, of course.  But you ask this question to protect yourself from answering the question whether the killing of babies in the Tanakh was evil.  By refusing to answer the question and instead posing the question "who decides what is evil", you can excuse any type of evil or immoral behavior.  Do you think rape is evil?  How do you decide that?  Aren't some things just common sense?  Has not God given us common sense? 

Regarding charity, it is to be given to all who need it, regardless of race or creed.  The Quran commands charity:

"It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing." (al-Baqarah, 2:177)

Let's get back to the killing of babies.  It is obvious that all of you will refrain from labeling the Israelite massacres as evil.  You cannot bring yourself around to admit that marauding soldiers spilling the blood of innocent children and babies is evil.  That is both disturbing and sickening.
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1812
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 11 December 2012 at 7:25pm
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

Originally posted by Salaam Erin

Islamispeace, according to the Qur'an the human race were wiped out except for Noah and his family.  Therefore Allah kills babies too- this is the same story that is in the Bible.


Not that this is in any way related to God commanding the Israelites to kill babies during a war, but:

1.  There is actually no evidence in the Quran that the whole earth was destroyed in the flood, and,

2.  As I explained to Placid, there is a difference between God destroying sinful nations and God ordering human armies to destroy entire nations, including killing the babies.

God carries out His judgment on whomsoever He wills.  Humans have not been given the authority to condemn entire nations because that is God's right only.

Originally posted by Salaam Erin

It was judgement, not genocide- you are ignoring the fact that Rhab and her family and the Gibeonites were spared, ignoring the large amounts of Canaanites exiled in Egypt who came with the Israelites, that it was a war of liberation against quisling kings and their supporters in a part of the Egyptian Empire, that the Israelites only destroyed three cities, they never went through with the campaign, they were not warring against the Canaanites outside of Canaan, God upon seeing the lack of following through of Joshua's disabling operations (not acts of genocide), withdrew His support and let them mix to test them, including letting the bronze age weaponry of the Israelites not overcome the iron age weapons of their enemies.
 

Wow.  It was not genocide but "judgment".  Right.  So, this "judgment" apparently involved, for some reason, "utterly destroying" the target nation, including the killing of children and infants (i.e. genocide).  What kind of "judgment" is that?

Regarding your ridiculous excuse that the killings are somehow off-set by the fact that Rahab and her family were spared, you neglect to mention the reason:

"They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.  [...] Then they burned the whole city and everything in it, but they put the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron into the treasury of the Lord’s house. 25 But Joshua spared Rahab the prostitute, with her family and all who belonged to her, because she hid the men Joshua had sent as spies to Jericho—and she lives among the Israelites to this day." (Joshua 6: 21, 24-25)

So, the only reason she was spared was because she helped the Israelite spies.  It was not because of the Israelites' compassion.  Even if that was the case, you think that because Rahab and her family were spared, we can overlook the fact that the rest of the city was completely destroyed and every living thing along with it. 

Regarding the Gibeonites, the only reason they were not slaughtered was because the Israelites had a treaty with them and it was considered a sin to violate one's treaty.  Also, the whole reason the Gibeonites even tried to deceive the Israelites into forming the treaty was because they feared that what was done to the other nations would also be done to them:

"Then Joshua summoned the Gibeonites and said, “Why did you deceive us by saying, ‘We live a long way from you,’ while actually you live near us? 23 You are now under a curse: You will never be released from service as woodcutters and water carriers for the house of my God.”  They answered Joshua, “Your servants were clearly told how the Lord your God had commanded his servant Moses to give you the whole land and to wipe out all its inhabitants from before you. So we feared for our lives because of you, and that is why we did this. 25 We are now in your hands. Do to us whatever seems good and right to you.”

26 So Joshua saved them from the Israelites, and they did not kill them." (Joshua 9:22-26)

How nice it was of Joshua to spare them to be the servants of the Israelites.  The only reason was that he had a treaty with them, even though it was based on a deception that was designed to protect the Gibeonites from meeting the same grisly fate as the other nations.   

Originally posted by Salaam Erin

cts of genocide), withdrew His support and let them mix to test them, including letting the bronze age weaponry of the Israelites not overcome the iron age weapons of their enemies.  This points to God, although giving the command of conquest and driving the Canaanites out (not genocide), really intended to let things go when the Israelites did not follow things throughm knowing it would test them and also prove to the world that our sin and failure is so complete that not even a human-run theocracy works.  God also warned the Israelites He would do to them what He did to the Canaanites.  This He did, in 721 BC, 587 BC and AD 70.  And yet the Jews weren't wiped out.  If the Canaanites were so wiped out, explain how Jesus spoke with a Canaanite woman 1200 years or so later.


This is a problem for you Christians to answer.  Why?  Because of what Deuteronomy 7 stated:

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.a]">[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy."


Apparently, God's promise was not fulfilled:

"Judah could not dislodge the Jebusites, who were living in Jerusalem; to this day the Jebusites live there with the people of Judah." (Joshua 15:63)

So, not only was God's promise not fulfilled, but it also explains why some of the target nations continued to survive despite the clear command to "destroy them totally".  The only reason was that the Israelites failed to fulfill God's command.  The Jebusites managed to survive not because of the Israelites' "compassion" but because they fought hard against them and managed to defeat them.

So, you ask a good question.  Why did the target nations still survive when God allegedly promised that they would be defeated by the Israelites?  Why indeed!  That is a question for you to answer, not me. 

The other point is that the nations that the Israelites managed to defeat were put to the sword and destroyed, allegedly.  There was a definite attempt to wipe them off the fact of the earth.  But just as any attempted genocide usually fails, so did the Israelites' attempted genocide ultimately fail.  It was not because they were compassionate.  They just failed to finish the job, just like the Nazis failed in their evil plot to exterminate the Jews or how the Hutu militias in Rwanda failed in their evil plot to exterminate the Tutsis or even how the Turks failed in their evil plot to exterminate the Armenians.  Genocide is genocide, even if it ultimately failed.  The attempt and the intention was there. 

Originally posted by Salaam Erin

As for the death of babies, what about babies who die naturally?  Don't you believe as a Muslim in predestination?  Also, one other factor needs to be taken into consideration.  God alone knows how a baby is going to turn out when he or she grows up.  The only thing which could at all justify the death of a baby is if God knows that the survival of the human reace depends on it, considering His foreknowledge of how someone will turn out and what they will do.  (Hitler was a baby.)


A natural death is different from being purposefully stabbed with a sword. 
How screwed up can you be to not see the difference? 

If the excuse you give for their killing was that God knew how they would turn out, then why didn't He just take their souls and let them die peacefully, instead of at the point of the sword of a marauding Israelite soldier?  How much pain do you think they would have felt? 

Yes, Hitler was a baby, and as a baby, he was innocent.  It was only when he became a man and had an understanding of right and wrong did he become culpable for his actions.  Hence, he became evil.  Babies are not evil. 

Originally posted by Salaam Erin

Also, unpopular as this is going to be, you believe that man was conceived and born sinless.  We Christians do not.  We were born in sin and shapen in iniquity.  Paradoxically, God was acting in mercy.
 

So being killed at the point of a sword was an "act of mercy"?  I can't believe what I am reading!  Shocked  Wouldn't it have been more merciful if God had just taken them peacefully, if it was that important for them die at all? 

Why are they "born in sin"?  How can you be held responsible for something that is out of your control? 

Originally posted by Salaam Erin

Besides, as you read the Old Testament on, God is vindicated by His actions.  The true Faith was only secured by God's ruthless treatment of the Jews in 587 BC, chastening the Jews and creating enough people of faith to jutify God coming amongst them as a Jew.  Finally, given the ritual abuse of children, babies right from the beginning due to that abuse were already traumatised and corrupted.


"God is vindicated"?  Was God on "trial"?  Who are you to say that God needed "vindication"?  It amazes me how far you guys will go to try to justify the senseless slaughter of infants.  You make all sorts of excuses and then you blaspheme against God by saying that He was "vindicated" because He brought the same type of treatment on the Jews that He commanded them to do to others in the first place, all because of some discombobulated plan to eventually come down "amongst them as a Jew".  So basically you are saying that all this bloodshed and pain had to occur so that God could eventually come down and die for our sins.  That was the plan, right? 

Originally posted by Salaam Erin

Also, I would advise you to read what is said in Genesis about the Nephilim, as well as Jude's letter in the New Testament.  The 'sons of God' sinned and came down from Heaven and took the daughters of men, and had children, who were giants and conquerors.  the 12 spies sent by Moses reported that the people in Canaan were giants and to them the spies were just grasshoppers.  It seems that the people the Israelites were fighting weren't even fully human.  And before you mock, remember you believe in jinn.  ;o


Wow, another creative excuse for killing babies.  They weren't even fully human!  Funny, because that is exactly what Hitler said about the Jews...they weren't even humans!  Nazi propaganda referred to Jews as "rats" [1].  To the Nazis, the Jews were essentially animals.  That is how they justified their attempts at exterminating them.  As Deepa Kumar of the "Post-Gazette" so eloquently stated in the aftermath of the recent shootings at a Sikh temple:

"It's easier to kill people once you've dehumanized them" [2]

I truly hope that you think clearly on this issue.  The things I am reading, all the excuse-making and twisted logic, is sickening. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 19 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com