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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 27 November 2012 at 1:20pm
Hi Islam,

Quote: Placid, your response is a typical Christian response. First, you say that "loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself" is the way to go, yet at the same time, you cannot bring yourself around to categorically condemn the horrific genocide in the land of Canaan that the Bible claims God (Jesus, in your view) commanded.

Response: --- You arrived at some strange conclusions from what I said.
--- First, --- A typical Christian response might have been, “That was under the Old Covenant and happened about 3080 years ago, what has that got to do with Christians today?” --- And that could be the end of the response.
--- Second, ‘God (Jesus, in your view)’ --- is totally wrong, --- “God is God and there is no other.” --- There is no place in the NT where Jesus said, “I am God.”
--- Though some may express that, --- I don’t. --- Because Jesus was born on earth.

The same angel Gabriel that gave revelations to Muhammad, and ‘confirmed’ the former Scriptures as being true in Surah 3:3, and 5:48, also said to Mary in Luke 1:
34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be CALLED the Son of God.”

--- You see, the New Covenant (Testament) introduces God as our “Heavenly Father” and Jesus was CALLED the “Son of God.” --- It starts the “Family of God,” --- which true believers can be “adopted” into.
--- Jesus was not a “Son” by physical relationship, but The Holy Spirit planted the seed of Life in Mary’s womb, as it says in Surah 66:
12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
12 Rodwell: And Mary, the daughter of Imran, who kept her maidenhood, and into whose womb We breathed of Our Spirit, and who believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures, and was one of the devout. --- (So Jesus was CALLED the Son of God, --- and since He had no earthly Father, --- was he not from God?)

--- Third --- There is no more ‘condoning’ of atrocities in those days than there is of ‘condoning’ terrorism today, --- which ends up with innocent victims.

We can explain simply why it was done, --- but from 3080 years after the fact, --- I have no comment.
--- The people in the land were descendants of Noah’s 3 sons. The ones in Canaan were sons of Ham, --- and the ones in Ur of the Chaldees were sons of Shem --- but they were all idolaters.

--- Idolatry is the greatest sin against God, because ‘other gods’ suggest an ‘alternative’ to God. --- The people had become so overtaken with idolatry and immorality that there was no chance of recovery. --- Read about the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, in Genesis 18:16- 19:29, --- or some of the 7 places it is mentioned in the Quran. --- And how about the 360 some idols in the Kabah in Mecca when Muhammad was called to destroy idolatry, and return the people to believing in One God?

While God destroys everything that is contaminated with sin, --- the innocent children, and the ones who truly believe in God, would be judged righteous by God, would they not?.
--- When a society gets to the point where all that the children learn from their parents is idolatry and immorality, --- is it not more ‘merciful’ to destroy the ‘sin center’ and save the innocent children and the true believers, and grant them eternal life, --- than to have them learn to live and die in sin, and all be cast into hell?

Abraham was called out of his idolatrous family in Ur of the Chaldees, whose father was an idolater, Surah 6:
74 (Remember) when Abraham said unto his father Azar: Takest thou idols for gods? Lo! I see thee and thy folk in error manifest.
Also, different places in the Quran God said, “How many cities have We destroyed because of their sin?”    
   

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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 28 November 2012 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Islamispeace,

It is because with Jesus came a new covenant... God was "doing a new thing".
Muhammad's teaching is a throw back to the old testament ways.
Most followers of Jesus also have trouble reconciling with what went on in the old testament... but that is why they do not follow the old testament but the Gospel... the good news... the new testament... the new covenant.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Caringheart, there are so many things wrong with your post, I don't know where to begin. 

First, you say that Jesus came with a new covenant...that "God was doing a new thing".  But you believe Jesus is God.  Therefore, it was Jesus who ordered the merciless genocides which are described in graphic detail in the so-called "Old Testament" (Tanakh).  Nothing can change that.  So what if he came with a "new covenant"?  How does that change the fact that under his orders, the Israelites murdered hundreds of thousands of people, including innocent children and babies?  What sort of twisted individual is not disturbed by these monstrous verses? 

Then you say the utterly ridiculous claim that "Muhammad's teaching is a throw back to the old testament ways."  Wow!  Really?  This is the good old Christian hypocrisy I was talking about.  Before I refute this absurd statement, inshaAllah, I would like to give you the opportunity to prove that you are not a hypocrite, like so many of your brethren.  If you think that Muhammad (pbuh) was so wrong for fighting against his enemies and killing them to protect his people, then do you also feel that Moses (pbuh) was wrong for fighting the Cannanites...and butchering all of them?  If you are critical of Muhammad (pbuh), are you also criticial of Moses (pbuh)?  Here is your chance to remove the stench of hypocrisy from yourself.

Now, onto your claim that "Muhammad's teaching is a throw back to the old testament ways".  I think the best way to refute this utterly asinine statement is to make a simple comparison with the "Old Testament ways" and the Ways of Muhammad (pbuh):

Old Testament Ways - "Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you."
(Deuteronomy 20:17)

Ways of Muhammad (pbuh) - "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." (Surah al-Mumtahana, 60:8)

Old Testament Ways - When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the Lord our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.
35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves. (Deuteronomy 2:32-34)

Ways of Muhammad (pbuh) - "
Hanzala Al-Katib reported: We went on an expedition with the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, and we passed by a woman who had been killed and the people were gathered around her. They dispersed and he said, “She was not among those who were fighting.” Then he told a man to return to Khalid ibn Al-Waleed and say to him, “Verily, the Messenger of Allah has commanded you, saying: do not kill children or workers.”" (Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Jihad, Number 2842)

Old Testament Ways - "So the Lord our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them—the whole region of Argob, Og’s kingdom in Bashan. All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. We completely destroyeda]">[a] them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroyingb]">[b] every city—men, women and children. But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves." (Deueteronomy 3:3-7)

Ways of Muhammad (pbuh) - "Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. do not kill a decrepit old man, o a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well." (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 14, Number 2608)

We could go on and on, but I think the point has been made.  The "Old Testament ways", as you put them, are completely different from the Ways of Muhammad (pbuh) and the Ways of Islam.  Only a fool would think the two are comparable. 

As for the "New Covenant", it seems that it will last only until the return of Jesus (pbuh), after which teachings like "turn the other cheek" and "love your enemy" will go out the window:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”" (Luke 19:27)

"Gill's Exposition of Entire the Bible" comments on this verse:

"bring hither, and slay them before me; which had its accomplishment in the destruction of Jerusalem, when multitudes of them were slain with the sword, both with their own, and with their enemies; and to this the parable has a special respect, and of which Christ more largely discourses in this chapter; see Luke 19:41 though it is true of all natural men, that they are enemies to Christ; and so of all negligent and slothful professors, and ministers of the word, who, when Christ shall come a second time, of which his coming to destroy the Jewish nation was an emblem and pledge, will be punished with everlasting destruction by him; and then all other enemies will be slain and destroyed, sin, Satan, the world, and death:"

So much for the "New Covenant". 



Edited by islamispeace - 28 November 2012 at 12:13pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 28 November 2012 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Placid

Response: --- You arrived at some strange conclusions from what I said.
--- First, --- A typical Christian response might have been, “That was under the Old Covenant and happened about 3080 years ago, what has that got to do with Christians today?”


Placid, your response was typical of Christians as I explained.  You tried to excuse the genocide instead of condemning it as any rational individual would do. 

Originally posted by Placid

Second, ‘God (Jesus, in your view)’ --- is totally wrong, --- “God is God and there is no other.” --- There is no place in the NT where Jesus said, “I am God.”
--- Though some may express that, --- I don’t. --- Because Jesus was born on earth.


I am glad to hear you say that!  I apologize for assuming that you believe Jesus was God.  But as you identify yourself as a Christian, my assumption was understandable.  If I may ask, are you a Jehovah's Witness?

But the problem still remains.  If God ordered these killings, yet at the same time, God is just and fair, how do you reconcile the killing of babies?

Originally posted by Placid

The same angel Gabriel that gave revelations to Muhammad, and ‘confirmed’ the former Scriptures as being true in Surah 3:3, and 5:48, also said to Mary in Luke 1:
34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be CALLED the Son of God.”


This is off-topic but let me just say that the Holy Quran states clearly that Jesus is NOT the "son of God":

"The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!" (9:30)

Originally posted by Placid

Rodwell: And Mary, the daughter of Imran, who kept her maidenhood, and into whose womb We breathed of Our Spirit, and who believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures, and was one of the devout. --- (So Jesus was CALLED the Son of God, --- and since He had no earthly Father, --- was he not from God?)


The Quran has a very simple answer for this:

"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." (3:59)

Originally posted by Placid

Third --- There is no more ‘condoning’ of atrocities in those days than there is of ‘condoning’ terrorism today, --- which ends up with innocent victims.


There were innocent victims in the Israelite genocides.  I have yet to hear one Christian condemn these genocides.  On the other hand, plenty of Muslims condemn terrorism done in the name of Islam, and the Quran and Sunnah both categorically condemn the killing of innocent people.

Originally posted by Placid

We can explain simply why it was done, --- but from 3080 years after the fact, --- I have no comment.


Exactly!  This is the Christian answer: ignore it.  But your answer also shows me that in the back of your mind, you know it is wrong.  You just can't bring yourself around to say it because it would mean you are questioning what you believe is "scripture". 

Originally posted by Placid

The people in the land were descendants of Noah’s 3 sons. The ones in Canaan were sons of Ham, --- and the ones in Ur of the Chaldees were sons of Shem --- but they were all idolaters.

Idolatry is the greatest sin against God, because ‘other gods’ suggest an ‘alternative’ to God. --- The people had become so overtaken with idolatry and immorality that there was no chance of recovery. --- Read about the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, in Genesis 18:16- 19:29, --- or some of the 7 places it is mentioned in the Quran. --- And how about the 360 some idols in the Kabah in Mecca when Muhammad was called to destroy idolatry, and return the people to believing in One God?
 

I thought you said you had no comment?  Now you are trying to find excuses again.  What does the facts that the people of Canaan were descendants of Noah's sons and were all idolaters have to do with the killing of innocent children and babies?  Why are you trying to excuse the inexcusable?

Originally posted by Placid

While God destroys everything that is contaminated with sin, --- the innocent children, and the ones who truly believe in God, would be judged righteous by God, would they not?.


None of this changes the fact that these children were killed in the most gruesome ways.  Just imagine what the scene must have looked like.  Innocent children and babies being slaughtered like lambs with the sword, and their blood staining the earth.  I doubt any rational person can say it was okay to kill them since they would "judged righteous by God..." 

Originally posted by Placid

When a society gets to the point where all that the children learn from their parents is idolatry and immorality, --- is it not more ‘merciful’ to destroy the ‘sin center’ and save the innocent children and the true believers, and grant them eternal life, --- than to have them learn to live and die in sin, and all be cast into hell?


If that is the case, then one could argue that such behavior should be done even today.  If the idea is to "save" them from Hell, then all children living in the modern world, where sin is everywhere, should be killed.  Furthermore, who is to say that those children could not be taught to worship the One God?   

Islam totally rejects this twisted logic:

"Yazid ibn Hurmaz reported: Najda wrote a letter to Ibn Abbas asking him about killing children. He wrote back saying, “You wrote to me and asked me about killing children. The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, did not kill them and you should not kill them, unless you know about them what the companion of Moses knew about the boy.”" (Musnad Ahmad, #3254)

Originally posted by Placid

Abraham was called out of his idolatrous family in Ur of the Chaldees, whose father was an idolater, Surah 6:
74 (Remember) when Abraham said unto his father Azar: Takest thou idols for gods? Lo! I see thee and thy folk in error manifest.
Also, different places in the Quran God said, “How many cities have We destroyed because of their sin?”


But was Abraham (pbuh) killed?  Of course not! 

And as far as the cities that were punished, they were destroyed by God Himself, not by an army under His command.  God decides who lives and who dies, not humans.  This is true in everyday life as well as in battle.  In battle, God has decreed that killing unarmed civilians is am abhorrent sin. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 28 November 2012 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Salaam_Erin

Except that it wasn't a war of genocide but a war of liberation. The Book of Joshua was written in a high context culture which knew that Canaan was part of the Egyptian Empire and that Canaan was ruled by pro-Egyptian Quisling Kings. Most of the Canaanites had been exiled in Egypt and came back with the Israelites. The Exodus led by Moses did not have Israelites in it. And even then if you study the Book of Joshua carefully, Joshua's battles were disabling operations and not genocide. He only destroyed three cities, Jericho, Ai and Hazor. They then kept going back to Gilgal. After Joshua died, the plan fell apart and Israel was overrun by different nations. They ended up living with the Canaanites, and the conquest was only completed by David. As God said to Abraham, the sin of the Amorites had not reached its full measure. (Genesis 15:16) As for the Amalekites, Saul was instructed only to attack one settlement. If you study the history of the Amalekites from the Bible and from the records of the other nations around, the Amalekites were a unique culture which was entirely based on terrorism and raids, in which even the children were involved. They had in earlier times attacked the elderly and babies from behind when Moses was marching with Israel through the Sinai Peninsula.

God gave the order against the Canaanite tribes as an act of judgement for their sin, but He did so knowing Israel would fail, mix with them and lose the ideological war with them, ending up just like them, so they suffered the same fate as the Canaanites in the north in 721 BC and the south in 587 BC. Remember, Midianites actually merged in with Israelit culture- after all, Moses' father in law was the Midianite priest of God.

People need to read the Bible carefully to see what it actually says and not what people think it says.


This is the first time I have heard a Christian actually claim that this was not genocide.  All I can say is...wow.  Apparently, it is not genocide when you kill off entire cities and nations, slaughtering even the children and babies!  What is it if not genocide...?

By the way, the genocide started with Moses (pbuh) and was continued by his successors, including Joshua.  What was that you said about reading the Bible carefully to see what it actually says?  

 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 28 November 2012 at 8:02pm
Greetings Islamispeace,

I appreciate all that you have said.

15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”
17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 
(Deuteronomy 18, I have used both KJV and NIV to make reading easier without detracting from the true message)

and Deuteronomy 34
10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, 11 who did all those signs and wonders the Lord sent him to do in Egypt—to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. 12 For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.
 ... until Jesus.  Jesus is this "new thing" which God decides to do, because the people asked for it.
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.  - the words of Jesus.
Originally posted by islamispeace


  What sort of twisted individual is not disturbed by these monstrous verses? 

You are correct, and this is why so many people reject religion... reject the notion of God.
and as I said...
"Most followers of Jesus also have trouble reconciling with what went on in the old testament... but that is why they do not follow the old testament but the Gospel... the new covenant."
Originally posted by islamispeace

If you are critical of Muhammad (pbuh), are you also criticial of Moses (pbuh)? 

Honestly... yes, I am.  I only accept Moses because it was the first appearance of God to the people, and then in the later scriptures, more than once, God says that He is revealing that He will do a new thing, and it will not be understood until its time arrives.  I believe in Jesus as the new covenant... that God of the old testament and of the first followers... i.e., Abraham et.al. ... God of the old testament was a God who visited His wrath, time and again, on His people, and it did no good... so yes, I believe God was doing just as He said He would do... He was "doing a new thing" when He decided to come to the people in human form, to show rather than His wrath, but the depth of His Love.  It is this Love that leads the followers of Jesus to God.  'Greater love has no one than this... that he lay down his life for another.'  It is in seeing this great love in the sacrifice God made for us that we are led to Love in return, and Love leads one into obedience, out of a desire not to cause hurt to the One who loves us so much.

Regarding this;
Old Testament Ways - When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the Lord our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors. 35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves. (Deuteronomy 2:32-34)
Your comparisons are like comparing apples with oranges because it does not compare the word of the torah with the word of the quran.  And regardless of what was said, the followers of Muhammad did the things boldened above.  Muhammad was well known for conquering and taking the conquered as slaves.

What I mean by Muhammad revives the old testament ways is the 'eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth', kind of thinking.  Jesus taught if anyone smite the one cheek, offer him the other... Jesus taught, whoever is without sin may cast the first stone... and 'go and sin no more', you are forgiven your sins.  Jesus taught mercy.  To some extent Muhammad understood mercy, but not entirely.  He was willing not to kill, but to subjugate.  This was also to his benefit since he could then collect taxes from those whom he subjugated.  You can't collect anything from a dead man.  So we can question his motivation.  I am not saying I have the answer, but I do know that the things he did are questionable.  And the quran instructs to smite the necks of all unbelievers(anyone who will not take the shahada, anyone who does not believe in Muhammad, even though they believe in the One God), this is no different that the Israelites being commanded to kill all the Canaanites, classifying them all as pagan idolators(i.e., as evil people)... same thing.  Islam views anyone non-muslim the same way the Israelites were told to treat the Canaanites.  Old covenant ways vs. new covenant ways.  Islam ignores the 'new thing' which God brought.
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." (Luke 19:27)"
Yes, I have a problem with that scripture.  Let it also be noted that none of the Apostles acted in this way.  In fact Jesus reprimanded Peter for cutting of the ear of one who came to arrest Jesus.

I honestly can not understand the 'Gill's exposition'.  If I can find the time and energy to delve into it at another time I will.

Salaam,
CH

We'll see if this is allowed to post.


Edited by Caringheart - 02 December 2012 at 9:17pm
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 28 November 2012 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by islamispeace


If that is the case, then one could argue that such behavior should be done even today.  If the idea is to "save" them from Hell, then all children living in the modern world, where sin is everywhere, should be killed.  Furthermore, who is to say that those children could not be taught to worship the One God?   


And as far as the cities that were punished, they were destroyed by God Himself, not by an army under His command.  God decides who lives and who dies, not humans.


Greetings islamispeace,

I like these things you say.  It shows that we are on common ground. Smile

Salaam,
CH
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 29 November 2012 at 5:38am
Originally posted by islamispeace

Placid, your response is a typical Christian response.  First, you say that "loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself" is the way to go, yet at the same time, you cannot bring yourself around to categorically condemn the horrific genocide in the land of Canaan that the Bible claims God (Jesus, in your view) commanded.  Also, it wasn't just the Amalekites which were "annihilated".  It was also the Midianites...and the Hittites...and the Amorites...and the Perizzites...and so on...What I find even more ironic is the fact that the same Christians who so enthusiastically defend the Biblically-sanctioned genocide also have the audacity to actually criticize the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for fighting against his enemies and killing them!  Yet, Muhammad (pbuh) did not kill women, children, the elderly, or farm animals!  I don't know if you are one of these Christians, but it is an all too common hypocrisy amongst many of your brethren. 



somebody should add a like button in this forum
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 29 November 2012 at 5:48am
Originally posted by islamispeace



Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Islamispeace,It is because with Jesus came a new covenant... God was "doing a new thing".Muhammad's teaching is a throw back to the old testament ways.Most followers of Jesus also have trouble reconciling with what went on in the old testament... but that is why they do not follow the old testament but the Gospel... the good news... the new testament... the new covenant.Salaam,Caringheart

Caringheart, there are so many things wrong with your post, I don't know where to begin.  First, you say that Jesus came with a new covenant...that "God was doing a new thing".  But you believe Jesus is God.  Therefore, it was Jesus who ordered the merciless genocides which are described in graphic detail in the so-called "Old Testament" (Tanakh).  Nothing can change that.  So what if he came with a "new covenant"?  How does that change the fact that under his orders, the Israelites murdered hundreds of thousands of people, including innocent children and babies?  What sort of twisted individual is not disturbed by these monstrous verses?  Then you say the utterly ridiculous claim that "Muhammad's teaching is a throw back to the old testament ways."  Wow!  Really?  This is the good old Christian hypocrisy I was talking about.  Before I refute this absurd statement, inshaAllah, I would like to give you the opportunity to prove that you are not a hypocrite, like so many of your brethren.  If you think that Muhammad (pbuh) was so wrong for fighting against his enemies and killing them to protect his people, then do you also feel that Moses (pbuh) was wrong for fighting the Cannanites...and butchering all of them?  If you are critical of Muhammad (pbuh), are you also criticial of Moses (pbuh)?  Here is your chance to remove the stench of hypocrisy from yourself.Now, onto your claim that "Muhammad's teaching is a throw back to the old testament ways".  I think the best way to refute this utterly asinine statement is to make a simple comparison with the "Old Testament ways" and the Ways of Muhammad (pbuh):<span id="en-NIV-5445" ="text="" deut-20-17"=""><span id="en-NIV-5445" ="text="" deut-20-17"="">Old Testament Ways - "Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the <span style="font-variant: small-caps" ="small-caps"="">Lord</span> your God has commanded you." </span>(Deuteronomy 20:17)</span>Ways of Muhammad (pbuh) - "Allah
forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your)
Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly
with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." (Surah al-Mumtahana, 60:8)
Old Testament Ways - <span id="en-NIV-4971" ="text="" deut-2-32"="">When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz,</span> <span id="en-NIV-4972" ="text="" deut-2-33"=""><sup ="versenum"="">33 the <span style="font-variant: small-caps" ="small-caps"="">Lord</span> our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army.</span> <span id="en-NIV-4973" ="text="" deut-2-34"=""><sup ="versenum"="">34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.</span> <span id="en-NIV-4974" ="text="" deut-2-35"=""><sup ="versenum"="">35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves. (Deuteronomy 2:32-34)Ways of Muhammad (pbuh) - "</span><span id="en-NIV-4974" ="text="" deut-2-35"="">Hanzala Al-Katib reported: We went on an expedition with the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, and we passed by a woman who had been killed and the people were gathered around her. They dispersed and he said, “She was not among those who were fighting.” Then he told a man to return to Khalid ibn Al-Waleed and say to him, “Verily, the Messenger of Allah has commanded you, saying: do not kill children or workers.”"</span> (Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Jihad, Number 2842)Old Testament Ways - "<span id="en-NIV-4979" ="text="" deut-3-3"="">So the <span style="font-variant: small-caps" ="small-caps"="">Lord</span> our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors.</span> <span id="en-NIV-4980" ="text="" deut-3-4"=""><sup ="versenum"="">4 At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them—the whole region of Argob, Og’s kingdom in Bashan.</span> <span id="en-NIV-4981" ="text="" deut-3-5"=""><sup ="versenum"="">5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages.</span> <span id="en-NIV-4982" ="text="" deut-3-6"=""><sup ="versenum"="">6 We completely destroyeda>">[a> them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroyingb>">[b> every city—men, women and children.</span> <span id="en-NIV-4983" ="text="" deut-3-7"=""><sup ="versenum"="">7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.</span>" (Deueteronomy 3:3-7)Ways of Muhammad (pbuh) - "Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Go in
Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's
Apostle. do not kill a decrepit old man, o a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well." (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 14, Number 2608)
We could go on and on, but I think the point has been made.  The "Old Testament ways", as you put them, are completely different from the Ways of Muhammad (pbuh) and the Ways of Islam.  Only a fool would think the two are comparable.  As for the "New Covenant", it seems that it will last only until the return of Jesus (pbuh), after which teachings like "turn the other cheek" and "love your enemy" will go out the window:"<span ="woj"="">But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”</span>" (Luke 19:27)"Gill's Exposition of Entire the Bible" comments on this verse:"bring hither, and slay them before me; which had its accomplishment in
the destruction of Jerusalem, when multitudes of them were slain with
the sword, both with their own, and with their enemies; and to this the
parable has a special respect, and of which Christ more largely
discourses in this chapter; see Luke 19:41
though it is true of all natural men, that they are enemies to Christ;
and so of all negligent and slothful professors, and ministers of the
word, who, when Christ shall come a second time, of which his coming to
destroy the Jewish nation was an emblem and pledge, will be punished
with everlasting destruction by him
; and then all other enemies will be
slain and destroyed, sin, Satan, the world, and death:
"So much for the "New Covenant". 

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