Getting back to Ghazzali's original question of "what is this 'something else'", the Qur'an provides a clear and coherent answer in the four verses I referred to above. Despite my unbelief I can still see the internal logic of that explanation, if we suppose such a God really exists. But it does make me wonder why we unbelievers are then singled out for the worst punishment, considering how deliberately we have been - and continue to be - handicapped. Am I the only one who finds this a bit unfair? Perhaps my question about fairness assumes a set of values that is not universal?

Folks, am drowned in your responses.

Will try to catch up with all of you by the end of this week. As for now, its 4:00 pm Japan local time, and am off to too many things till satruday, so come back on sunday.

Peace!

Hi Caringheart

Those same revelations may be missing from the Bible, but doesn't your God also deceive, by continuing to choose plausible deniability at every turn, thus avoiding any direct worldly intervention that might blow His cover? Perhaps, even, actively tampering with empirical observations wherever necessary to sustain the illusion?

No doubt the deception is all done for a worthy cause, such as testing the Faithful, or ensuring an ample supply of non-believers to 'make an example of'. But the same could also be said of 2:7, 6:25, 17:97 and 18:57.

I'm not so bothered about the deception part. It's actually quite ingenious, the more I think about it.

What really irks me is the apparent injustice of being condemned to eternal hellfire just for my inability to remove a seal that Allah() placed on my heart expressly for the purpose of ensuring that I will never believe.

In The Name Of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful


Hi nospam001,

The way I look at this is, the further you deviate from the righteous path, the further you are from it, the harder it is to return to it. And it is a reminder and a warning to the believers not to disbelieve. And Allah knows best.

If we contemplate, look around us and ask questions, and not distract ourselves in unworthily things, then we have made steps towards the truth. If we are sincere then there is no doubt that our Creator will answer to us and give us the truth. For you to be contemplating those versus indicates that you are seeking.

You have been given free will and if you choose to take the wrong path i.e. disbelieve then that is an individual's choice. Allah has given sign after sign after sign:
"And He has subjected for you the night and day and the sun and moon, and the stars are subjected by His command. Indeed in that are signs for a people who reason." (16:12)

He (the Almighty) also says:
"And if you should count the favor of Allah, you could not enumerate them. Indeed, mankind is [generally] most unjust and ungrateful." (14:34)

Indeed those favors are all around us. I don't need to go far, I'm looking at my fingers move, the mechanics behind this is overwhelming. Looking at my nails, it's fascinating how they are hard and positioned right at the tip of each finger. etc etc etc… Was this all by chance? Surely this is the Fashioner of forms, the best Creator.

"Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators." (23:14)

And if these signs are willingly disregarded, Allah won't force you to believe. Just like a teacher trying to teach their student, but if this student refuses to learn, you can't force them, it isn't just.

It isn't "apparent injustice of being condemned to eternal hellfire" as you may think, as this surah in it self mentions:
"So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah. And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment." (9:3)

Also, Hadith Qudsi (*):

"Allah the Almighty said: I am as My servant thinks I am (1). I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed. (1) Another possible rendering of the Arabic is: "I am as My servant expects Me to be". The meaning is that forgiveness and acceptance of repentance by the Almighty is subject to His servant truly believing that He is forgiving and merciful. However, not to accompany such belief with right action would be to mock the Almighty. It was related by al-Buhkari (also by Muslim, at-Tirmidhi and Ibn-Majah)."

http://sunnah.com/qudsi40/15

We need Allah, He doesn't need us and we need to surrender to Him and His will. If we do this, we are saved and there would be no seal on our hearts. But we have to make the choice ourselves. If we continue to disobey, then Allah will make it harder for us to seek the righteous path.

(*) Hadith Qudsi are the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) as revealed to him by the Almighty Allah. Hadith Qudsi (or Sacred Hadith) are so named because, unlike the majority of Hadith which are Prophetic Hadith, their authority (Sanad) is traced back not to the Prophet but to the Almighty.



Edited by Rational - 12 January 2013 at 4:15am