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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Ghazzali
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Quote Ghazzali Replybullet Topic: What is this "something else"?
    Posted: 24 October 2012 at 5:10pm
May peace be on the guided ones. Well, Christians, Jews and Atheists always talk about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) being "a pedophile, a womanizer, a mass-murderer, a robber, a schizophrenic suffering from epilepsy", etc. But, what if Muhammad(pbuh) never married a woman in his life, never fought a single war, never "robbed", never "suffered from epilepsy", etc.? Would the Christians, Jews and Atheists have believed he was a prophet? NO. They still would not have believed. So, why do they still bring these accusations, when they know these are not the issues that stop them from accepting him as a prophet? There is something else that stops them from accepting Muhammad(pbuh) as a prophet. What is this "something else"?
The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 24 October 2012 at 8:14pm

First, I would like to suggest that the people who might characterize Muhammad as you describe are generally less likely to be atheists than those other groups.  To a Christian or a Jew, Islam is not just a significant "competitor" but also an abominable heresy; and it is easy (maybe even obligatory) to believe abominable things about heretics.  Most atheists probably give little or no thought to Muhammad's moral character at all.

To answer your question directly, the "something else" is the same thing that stops you from accepting Joseph Smith or L. Ron. Hubbard or the "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon as prophets.  Quite simply, there is no reason to believe any of them, or to choose one over all the others.  Throughout history, individuals and communities have made up stories about supernatural beings.  Some stories have had more success than others.  So what?

As I just quoted in another discussion: " When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." (Stephen F Roberts)


Edited by Ron Webb - 24 October 2012 at 8:18pm
Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2012 at 12:15am
Originally posted by Ghazzali

May peace be on the guided ones. Well, Christians, Jews and Atheists always talk about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) being "a pedophile, a womanizer, a mass-murderer, a robber, a schizophrenic suffering from epilepsy", etc. But, what if Muhammad(pbuh) never married a woman in his life, never fought a single war, never "robbed", never "suffered from epilepsy", etc.? Would the Christians, Jews and Atheists have believed he was a prophet? NO. They still would not have believed. So, why do they still bring these accusations, when they know these are not the issues that stop them from accepting him as a prophet? There is something else that stops them from accepting Muhammad(pbuh) as a prophet. What is this "something else"?
 
As'alaamu Alaikkum
 
In my humble opinion they do not have guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala for them to accept Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and to accept Islam. Even people who read the Holy Qur'an and the hadiths and understand them will not accept it because they are missing this essential ingredient. They will always be deaf, dumb and blind.
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2012 at 9:34pm
To elaborate on Ron's succinct remarks; the "something else" is very different for agnostics and atheists, compared to people of faith. What we lack is any prior belief in the supernatural, without which there can be no meaningful concept of 'god' or 'prophet'. To some believers, that fact alone is a good reason to stop trying, whereas I'm sure there are many like Ghazzali who genuinely wish to understand.

The 'litmus test' of true understanding comes down to whether or not we can precisely state the other's point of view in words which they fully agree with. Until then, we are kidding ourselves with distorted 'straw man' arguments, which only create more resistance, not less.

Logically, it should be easier for a non-believer to succeed at this challenge, not because we are superior in any way but rather because there is nothing to fear in giving it a try. For a typical law-abiding non-believer, to imagine a forgiving deity is neither difficult nor intrinsically threatening: the only 'danger' (if you can call it that) is that we might come to believe in him/her/it.And packaged with that new-found faith, presumably, would come the certain knowledge of Justice for All and (for the righteous) Eternal Bliss in the Hereafter. These comforting ideas would be more than enough to justify whatever personal sacrifices are called for. (Well, they would be for me, and I'm guessing the same goes for Ron and many others.)

Logically, the equivalent challenge would be infinitely harder for those who already believe in the God of Abraham. To entertain a smidgen of doubt, 'just for argument's sake', even for a nanosecond, must be like peering over the edge of a sheer cliff. What if I fell? There is absolutely nothing to gain by looking, and everything to lose. And, just in case that's not distressing enough, the signposts threaten eternal hell-fire and damnation for anyone who dares to stray from the path. Why would anyone bother trying?
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2012 at 8:11am
Originally posted by nospam001


Logically, the equivalent challenge would be infinitely harder for those who already believe in the God of Abraham. To entertain a smidgen of doubt, 'just for argument's sake', even for a nanosecond, must be like peering over the edge of a sheer cliff. What if I fell? There is absolutely nothing to gain by looking, and everything to lose. And, just in case that's not distressing enough, the signposts threaten eternal hell-fire and damnation for anyone who dares to stray from the path. Why would anyone bother trying?
 
What's stopping you from believing? Is your logic on a higher plane than God's?
If I were you I would seriously seek knowledge (no pun intended).
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2012 at 4:55pm
Abu, what's stopping you from believing in the Celestial Teapot?
Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2012 at 12:43am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Abu, what's stopping you from believing in the Celestial Teapot?
 
Stay away from me or I will have to resort to some good ole foul language.
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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2012 at 2:15pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Stay away from me or I will have to resort to some good ole foul language.
So you really do have a sense of humour, after all. I'd offer you a beer if it wasn't haram. Smile

God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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