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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Prove that Paul or Muhammad had a Revelation. Post Reply Post New Topic
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 08 January 2013 at 12:38pm
Kish,
how it is that the words from your mouth, or from keyboard don't match with the reality of OT and NT.
Let us take for example you, a follower of NT, believes God to be a Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Tell me what a follower of OT think of God? You bring me one follower of the OT (that will be what we call these days a Jew) who can agree with you on the very first, the most basic teaching, that is about God and I will leave you alone with your argument because OT does not preach the same (Trinity)as we have seen.

The second most important thing is Jesus, the Messiah. Yall (those now known as Christians) who follow the NT, and claim to also follow the OT say that Jesus is God and equal to God. Find me a follower of the OT who can testify what you claim is true. And that the Messiah they are waiting is going to be God. Again the OT and NT do not agree with that.

I have many things to, but you cannot bear them now. First straighten the ones above and I will come back with more.
You have choice, let us see what you choose.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 08 January 2013 at 12:42pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2013 at 1:12pm

 

Originally posted by honeto

Let us take for example you, a follower of NT, believes God to be a Trinity….You bring me one follower of the OT (that will be what we call these days a Jew) who can agree with you on the very first, the most basic teaching, that is about God and I will leave you alone with your argument because OT does not preach the same (Trinity)as we have seen.

Hasan, there are millions of Christians like me here and abroad who do not believe God to be part of a trinity and Jesus being the Supreme God. I like you believe he is one. But if I did not, that has nothing to do with whether or not the scriptures are correct. I’m sure as a Muslim (Sunni/Shite) you could understand that.  

However, the Law of Moses was nailed to the stake along with Christ which the prophet Isaiah himself prophesied about many centuries in advance; also, many Jews and Romans eye-witnessed the event.

Originally posted by honeto

Find me a follower of the OT who can testify what you claim is true.

Starting with the Gospel of Matthew, first written in Hebrew for the Jews and Jesus 12 Disciples, the New Testament is full of Jewish individuals who at one time believed in the Old covenant/testament but understood Jesus to be the long promised Messiah of the New covenant/testament, all the writers of the New Covenant believed and preached it. Jesus said that God would reject the Jews (Matt. 21:43) God said Jesus is his “SON” (Matt 3:16, 17)

Prophet Jeremiah (25: 5, 6) and others even depicted the coming One, the Messiah, as the “sprout” for David. Prophet Micah (5:2) said he would be born in Bethlehem before he was ever born.

The Jews were looking for Jesus around a certain time of year; they were in expectation of him. (John 1:41 - “We have found the Mes·si′ah” (which means, when translated, Christ).

If a Muslim disagrees with all this proof from the Old and New Testament it, you’re making a BIG, terrible mistake.

But it still does not change the truth of the matter, be you a Jew, Christian, Muslim or Trinitarian.

Kish

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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 18 January 2013 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by kish

The Jews were looking for Jesus around a certain time of year; they were in expectation of him. (John 1:41 - “We have found the Mes·si′ah” (which means, when translated, Christ).


This is evidence that the Jews in the OT and the prophets were aware and in expectation of the "Christ"  Messiah in the NT. 
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 3:41pm
"..expectation of the Messiah", ..and not God. And that's all I am saying too!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2013 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by kish

Hasan, there are millions of Christians like me here and abroad who do not believe God to be part of a trinity and Jesus being the Supreme God. I like you believe he is one.


Originally posted by honeto

"..expectation of the Messiah", ..and not God. And that's all I am saying too!
Hasan


Well then, you and I agree when the Gospel said the Jews were in "expectation of the Messiah" or "anointed one". In Greek, Christ.

John 4:25, 26 The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·si′ah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one arrives, he will declare all things to us openly.” 26 Jesus said to her: “I who am speaking to you am he.

The Apostle Paul accepted Jesus as the Messiah but not Muhammad. The Apostle Paul accepted Jesus crucifixion, death and resurrection but not Muhammad.

Which means Muhammad falls under this category according to Galatians 1:8
 . . .  even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.

The Apostles Paul's writing is part of the Holy Scriptures (NT) but not Muhammad's Quran. The New Testament teachings of Jesus Christ is totally opposed to in the Quran, which is why the Quran does not have God's backing and is NOT part of the inspired canon of the Holy Scriptures.

Where in the Quran does Muhammad accepts Jesus life, death and Ministry?

Answer that question because the Apostle Paul accepted everything about Jesus. No wonder Jesus himself picked Saul/Paul and Jesus Apostles accepted Paul's message and the Romans hated him for it.
 


Edited by Kish - 23 January 2013 at 12:39pm
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 3:20pm
Kish,
good we agree on one thing, but there are many that we don't.
You are wrong, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) declared to us that Jesus was the Messiah. And that, when they tried to humiliate him and kill him, God saved and raised his beloved Essa (Jesus pbuh)to Himself.
And Jesus was the Messiah, the prophet the one who was given Gospel which he preached when he was alive, not Paul, not Matthew, not Luke, not John, not Judas, not Peter and so on. None of these men were given prophetic office nor a book by God.
The Quran which happens to be the most authentic and realiable, unchanged source on the life, prophethood and purpose of Jesus (pbuh)for fourteen hundered years in numerous places speaks the truth of the matter without any contradiction, unlike the Bible.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 28 January 2013 at 3:22pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 3:28pm
Greetings Hasan,

How do muslims know what Jesus taught?
Do muslims know what Jesus taught?
To where do muslims go to know what Jesus taught?

If they don't know what Jesus taught, how do they know that Muhammad doesn't teach something different?

and if muslims don't know what Jesus taught, then doesn't Muhammad negate Jesus? 
Yet Muhammad said not to ignore the earlier prophets, so I am very confused.  To where did he expect his followers to go to know what Jesus and the earlier prophets taught?

Salaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by honeto

And Jesus was the Messiah, the prophet the one who was given Gospel which he preached when he was alive, not Paul, not Matthew, not Luke, not John, not Judas, not Peter and so on.


. . . and it is for this reason the Islamic perspective of the Gospel is not part of the inspired canon of the Holy (Bible) Writings of the ancient Prophets but of the Quran which is why it's the first book for Muslims.

Galatians 1:8
 . . .  even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.
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