IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Prove that Paul or Muhammad had a Revelation.

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Kish

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Topic: Prove that Paul or Muhammad had a Revelation.
Posted: 23 October 2012 at 8:08pm

Please share with us:

What evidence do Christians have that the revelation of the Apostle Paul (Saul) while on the road to Damascus really happened?

What evidence do Muslims have that the revelation in the cave of Hira really happened to the Prophet Muhammad?

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 2:52am

Originally posted by Kish

Please share with us:

What evidence do Christians have that the revelation of the Apostle Paul (Saul) while on the road to Damascus really happened?

What evidence do Muslims have that the revelation in the cave of Hira really happened to the Prophet Muhammad?

*****ic people like you need proof whilst true believers have FAITH.

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abuayisha

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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:41am

Originally posted by Abu Loren

*****ic people like you need proof whilst true believers have FAITH.

Well, therein lies the challenge, and some may say folly, of "interfaith dialogue" because how do you debate a persons "FAITH" and belief? LOL, proof really becomes a slippery slope. Wallahu Mustaan!

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honeto

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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 10:24am

Originally posted by Kish

Please share with us:What evidence do Christians have that the revelation of the Apostle Paul (Saul) while on the road to Damascus really happened?What evidence do Muslims have that the revelation in the cave of Hira really happened to the Prophet Muhammad?

Kish,
my two cents for those who need proof:
For us that did not witness the events (of receiving Revelations by any prophets, Paul a prophet is a new to me) tens of centuries later the only proof left is just that, the Revelation itself, if he left any.
Only through it's study we can determine whether they represent the quality and authenticity of a Revelation by the All Knowing. We have put the Quran to the same test many times, and it never failed against any other.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 11:59am

As'alaamu Alaikkum

For those of you who do not know, Paul or Saul of Tarsus as was his title, was a Pharisee of the Jewish religion. The Pharisees were in the highr eschalons of the Jewish priestly order. To begin with he persecuted the new Christians, then on the road to Damascus he claims that he saw a vision of the risen Christ Jesus (pbuh). Then he claims that he was told by Jesus (pbuh) to stop persecuting him and to spread the new message of Christianity.

He then wrote a few letter so these newl found churches and it's these letters that form the majority of the New Testament Bible. These letters were never meant to be included in any canonical works. These lettes were just encouraging words to the new Christians, but somehow they ended up being the fundamentla teaching of the Christians in the church.

So having said all of that, where I come from is this, that Paul never saw any vision at all because Jesus (pbuh) was never crucified nor did he rise from the dead. So then what you are left with is a liar who lead billions of people away from the One True God into the hell fire.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 12:48pm

@Abu Loren

So you do not think Jesus leads the people to God? that people who have belief in Christ Jesus are led to God? How are the people following the teaching of Jesus that is in the Bible not being led to God?
How does Paul 'lead the people away from the one true God' with these words;

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

For those who claim love of God, but do not do good works, do not love God, and those who have the love of God can not help but do good works. It is the fruit that shows the spirit.

Edited by Caringheart - 27 October 2012 at 11:08am

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 4:08pm

Well, somebody is mistaken (I won't say "lying") -- but who, and how do we know? I think that's the point of the OP.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Ghazzali
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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 4:21pm

I want to add a few more questions Kish:

What evidence do Jews have that Moses (pbuh) is a prophet?

What evidence do Atheists have that there isn't any supernatural being?

The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.

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Topic: Prove that Paul or Muhammad had a Revelation.
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Author	Message
Kish Guest Group Joined: 07 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237	Topic: Prove that Paul or Muhammad had a Revelation. Posted: 23 October 2012 at 8:08pm
	Please share with us: What evidence do Christians have that the revelation of the Apostle Paul (Saul) while on the road to Damascus really happened? What evidence do Muslims have that the revelation in the cave of Hira really happened to the Prophet Muhammad?
	IP Logged

Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 2:52am
	*Originally posted by Kish* Please share with us: What evidence do Christians have that the revelation of the Apostle Paul (Saul) while on the road to Damascus really happened? What evidence do Muslims have that the revelation in the cave of Hira really happened to the Prophet Muhammad? *****ic people like you need proof whilst true believers have FAITH.
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abuayisha Senior Member Joined: 05 October 1999 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3992	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:41am
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *****ic people like you need proof whilst true believers have FAITH. Well, therein lies the challenge, and some may say folly, of "interfaith dialogue" because how do you debate a persons "FAITH" and belief? LOL, proof really becomes a slippery slope. Wallahu Mustaan!
	IP Logged

honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 10:24am
	*Originally posted by Kish* Please share with us:What evidence do Christians have that the revelation of the Apostle Paul (Saul) while on the road to Damascus really happened?What evidence do Muslims have that the revelation in the cave of Hira really happened to the Prophet Muhammad? Kish, my two cents for those who need proof: For us that did not witness the events (of receiving Revelations by any prophets, Paul a prophet is a new to me) tens of centuries later the only proof left is just that, the Revelation itself, if he left any. Only through it's study we can determine whether they represent the quality and authenticity of a Revelation by the All Knowing. We have put the Quran to the same test many times, and it never failed against any other. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 11:59am
	As'alaamu Alaikkum For those of you who do not know, Paul or Saul of Tarsus as was his title, was a Pharisee of the Jewish religion. The Pharisees were in the highr eschalons of the Jewish priestly order. To begin with he persecuted the new Christians, then on the road to Damascus he claims that he saw a vision of the risen Christ Jesus (pbuh). Then he claims that he was told by Jesus (pbuh) to stop persecuting him and to spread the new message of Christianity. He then wrote a few letter so these newl found churches and it's these letters that form the majority of the New Testament Bible. These letters were never meant to be included in any canonical works. These lettes were just encouraging words to the new Christians, but somehow they ended up being the fundamentla teaching of the Christians in the church. So having said all of that, where I come from is this, that Paul never saw any vision at all because Jesus (pbuh) was never crucified nor did he rise from the dead. So then what you are left with is a liar who lead billions of people away from the One True God into the hell fire.
	IP Logged

Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 12:48pm
	@Abu Loren So you do not think Jesus leads the people to God? that people who have belief in Christ Jesus are led to God? How are the people following the teaching of Jesus that is in the Bible not being led to God? How does Paul 'lead the people away from the one true God' with these words; 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. For those who claim love of God, but do not do good works, do not love God, and those who have the love of God can not help but do good works. It is the fruit that shows the spirit. Edited by Caringheart - 27 October 2012 at 11:08am
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1399	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 4:08pm
	Well, somebody is mistaken (I won't say "lying") -- but who, and how do we know? I think that's the point of the OP.
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
	IP Logged

Ghazzali Islam Groupie Joined: 01 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 4:21pm
	I want to add a few more questions Kish: What evidence do Jews have that Moses (pbuh) is a prophet? What evidence do Atheists have that there isn't any supernatural being?
	The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.
	IP Logged