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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Prove that Paul or Muhammad had a Revelation. Post Reply Post New Topic
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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

*****ic people like you need proof whilst true believers have FAITH.


SO, that's how you are starting off I see. I hope you never have to teach anyone about faith becasue even many prophets needed sound
proof or evidence to accept what is truth and that's just for starters. Saying believe me because I say so just doesn't carry much
wieght, it never did. Not to sincere honest hearted truth seekers. Now, what you said about Paul how does that differ from Muhammad
with his life as a Muslim, claimed he seen an angel which no Muslim can or has confirmed because he had no eye-witnesses to testify. Muhammad broke
the Holy Law of Moses when it comes to truth and falsehood! It has ALWAYS been emphasized in the Old and New Testament

Deuteronomy 19:15 . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good
Matthew 18:16 . . .  in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established.
2 Corithians 13:1 . . .This is the third time I am coming to YOU. “At the mouth of two witnesses or of three every matter must be established.

Why did Moses, Jesus, his 12 disciples and the Apostle Paul keep this principle of LAW but not Muhammad? They ALL agreed with each other, why not Muhammad? Could it be
Muhammad came with his own teachings and that is why not one person can confirm his revelation or his miracles?  


And then he came up with the first book for Muslims to follow the god of his father, Allah and the cresent moon.

Abu who were the eye-witnesses that this happened to Muhammad in the cave of Hira? Who said it was Gabriel much, much later on? Convince your student that it wasn't a hoax!
Why would an angel of Allah violently choke him many, many times over for not listening?  

Originally posted by abuayisha

. . how do you debate a persons "FAITH" and belief?


Very good question that really doesn't need debating. However, the ONLY challenge may be in one providing the proof or evidence itself that
such an event really happened or took place.

In harmony with the Law of Moses and the Prophets 7000 years ago and even today in the 21st century with the law of the land, their MUST ALWAYS
be eye-witnesses who either seen or heard the event. That is the FIRST rule of thumb in the Holy Scriptures.

Originally posted by honeto

. . my two cents for those who need proof:


Hasan, it has nothing to do with who need it. It has everything to do with did the event actually really happened as it was told and if it did then it
should not be an issue to bring forth proof or evidence, right? Remember, Jesus provided miracles and some still did not believe. So it has nothing to do
who need it but no one can deny that Jesus performed miracles as you yourself would agree he did. Do you believe everything a person tells you without sound evidence?

Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. Giving or procuring evidence is the process of
using those things that are either (a) presumed to be true, or (b) were in fact proven via evidence, to demonstrate an assertion's truth. Evidence is the currency by
which one fulfills the burden of proof.
 
Originally posted by Ghazzali

I want to add a few more questions Kish:

What evidence do Jews have that Moses (pbuh) is a prophet?

What evidence do Atheists have that there isn't any supernatural being?


Sorry, please stick with the topic or open one regarding Moses. Moses prophethood is not being question, Jews, Christians and Muslims all agree he was a prophet.
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by Ghazzali

I want to add a few more questions Kish:

What evidence do Jews have that Moses (pbuh) is a prophet?


That one is easy. Smile  Exodus from Egypt, crossing the Reed sea, surviving in the desert. 
That is if you believe they are not just made up stories.
Presumably though it is the people who lived it who told the stories to their children and it got passed down through the generations.


Edited by Caringheart - 24 October 2012 at 7:36pm
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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2012 at 4:46am
Originally posted by Kish

Deuteronomy 19:15 . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good
Matthew 18:16 . . . in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established.
2 Corithians 13:1 . . .This is the third time I am coming to YOU. “At the mouth of two witnesses or of three every matter must be established.


This LAW has been the established principle of the Holy Scriptures starting with the prophet Moses and the Torah, Muhammad failed to follow it. Even early Muslims followed that principle but don't believe me do the research. So, any event that Muhammad claimed happened to him according to scriptual LAW, it must be confirmed by people who eye-witnesses the event to prove that what he said happened really, realy happened. I'm curious now, since this was a "historical" event for Muslims did even one person see or hear this event in the cave of Hira that Muhammad claimed happened?

Where in the Quran can I find that answer. It's like saying Ishmael was the child that was about to be sacrificed but the Quran never mentions Ishamel by name, another claim of Muhammad and the list goes on! What you call that is BLIND faith, believe without evidence to back it up! Why not believe in the Baha'i faith?

Edited by Kish - 25 October 2012 at 4:47am
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2012 at 3:06pm
Kish,
I do not know your agenda, but your topic suggest that you are trying to find out if the revelations were from the All Knowing God or from man.
I have asked you in a previous post to check the contents of each revelations. This is the only way we can see as a fact which one is from who.
Everything else is one's word against the other you can come up with all kind of stories and they will be meaningless. And since you are the one asking you will need the answers and will need to listen.
There are many issues in the revelations we can take to compare the two.

I say let us take the most important ones first.
I do not know what is most important in your belief. But in mine it is:
God, who is God and who is not God.
Salvation, how it is achieved.
Was Jesus God or did he have a God.
The one (revelation) consistent with those three wins my heart.
So I will let you begin.
Tell me briefly who is God according to Paul, in fact let us take the entire Bible and see if it is consistent with that. We will take one at a time since we want to benefit from this comparison.
I am rally excited, I hope you are really serious.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Cyril Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2012 at 6:48am
Originally posted by honeto


I have asked you in a previous post to check the contents of each revelations. This is the only way we can see as a fact which one is from who.


It is not very hard to find out where revelations come from when you compare religions.

Most of the components of revelations are borrowings from neighbouring religions.



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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2012 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Cyril


Originally posted by honeto

I have asked you in a previous post to check the contents of each revelations. This is the only way we can see as a fact which one is from who.
It is not very hard to find out where revelations come from when you compare religions.Most of the components of revelations are borrowings from neighbouring religions.


Cyril,
where did these and many like this in the Quran came from.
Like this one:

5:73 (Y. Ali) They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
or may be this one:
3:59 (Y. Ali) The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
or may be this:
4:157 (Y. Ali) That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

or may be this:

5:116 (Y. Ali) And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

or this:

2:113 (Y. Ali) The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.

or may be this:
2:135 (Y. Ali) They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

what about his one:
112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
112:2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
112:3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
112:4 And there is none like unto Him.


Care to share your expertise about where these were borrowed from, which neighboring religion teaches these and many more such beautiful verses.
Love,

Hasan


Edited by honeto - 01 November 2012 at 3:35pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Ghazzali
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Quote Ghazzali Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2012 at 1:47pm
May peace be on the guided ones.
Originally posted by Kish

Moses prophethood is not being question, Jews, Christians and Muslims all agree he was a prophet.


According to Jews, Christians and Muslims are hypocrites and liars. What weight does their testimony carry? That is why I wanted to know, why does a Jew believe Musa(pbuh) is a prophet?

And it is relevant to the topic because then the same logic could possibly be used to prove that Isa(pbuh) and Muhammad(pbuh) were also prophets.
The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2012 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Ghazzali


  I wanted to know, why does a Jew believe Musa(pbuh) is a prophet?

And it is relevant to the topic because then the same logic could possibly be used to prove that Isa(pbuh) and Muhammad(pbuh) were also prophets.


Greetings ghazzali,

Did you see my reply to you?

CH

Originally posted by Ghazzali

I want to add a few more questions Kish:

What evidence do Jews have that Moses (pbuh) is a prophet?

That one is easy. Smile  Exodus from Egypt, crossing the Reed sea, surviving in the desert. 
That is if you believe they are not just made up stories.
Presumably though it is the people who lived it who told the stories to their children and it got passed down through the generations.


Edited by Caringheart - 05 November 2012 at 7:42pm
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