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Interfaith Dialogue
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Beebok
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Quote Beebok Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2012 at 10:07am
" What if by giving us free will and intelligence, God actually intended us to use that free will and intelligence? "

What if God gave us free will and intelligence to determine that Islam is the true religion and that it is the right way?

A truly compassionate God would not leave us without a map of the best way to worship.
It is a neglectful and uncaring God that leaves His creation to blunder and stumble.
To leave us in a chaos of confusion and conjecture would be a lack of compassion.
Hence, the Quran begins with, "In the name of God, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful."
He had the kindness and love to show us the right way.
And so, there is no reason for us to be ungrateful and arrogant to reject that way in favor of our own ways.

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Quote Beebok Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2012 at 10:22am
Hadith Doubters,

Here is a bit from "A Textbook of Hadith Studies, authenticity, compilation, classification, and criticism of hadith," by Mohammad Hashim Kamali, page 34:
"Al-Bukhari committed himself to include only the Sound hadith in his collection....
Al-Bukhari included hadith with an unbroken isnad narrated by upright and retentive individuals (al-udul al-dabitin) which were also free of defet ('illa) and oddities (shudhudh), and the narrators had met with one another."


Let's look at that sentence bit by bit,
1. "an unbroken "isnad"
That means an unbroken chain of transmission.

2. by upright and retentive individuals
"Upright" means that their reputations were completely intact. If there was the slightist bit of doubt about the narrator, Bukhari would write something like, fihi nazar, or "one has to look into him," or tarakuhu (abandoned). Hadith narrated by such people did not get included in his collection.
"Retentive" means that they were known to have good memories.

3. The narrators who received from one to the other had met with one another.

4. The hadith were themselves free from oddities and defects.

Each of those above 4 had their own rules and criteria for getting verified.

Quoting again from Kamali's "Hadith Studies," page 34-35:
"Al-Bukhari (and Muslim's) chain of isnad has been characterised as to rely in the first place on the narration of hadith from the Prophet by a verified Companion whose identity as a Companion is free of doubt. This is narrated in turn by two upright Followers, or by one Follower who is verified by at least two narrators for having transmiited hadith from the Co panions.
The third link in al-Bukhari's chain of isnad consists of an upright and retentive Successor (tabi tabi'i) from whom other narrators (in the fourth generation) have also reported.
The fifth link in al-Bukhari's isnad is likely to be al-Bukharis own shaykh/teacher who is an uprigt and retentive narrator.
He did not reord hadith from narrators whose trustworthiness  he doubted. It was very important for al-Bukhari to ensure that al least two people had narrated hadith from the preceding links, be it a Companion, Follower, Successor and so on.


Later on page 37, Kamali writes,
"Al-Bukhari's conditions of admitting a hadith as a Sahih hadith signified not only that the immediate links in the chain of isnad were contemporeries of one another, but also that they had actually met and direct hearing took place between the teacher and disciple.
....
...al-Bukhari required proof of an actual encounter between the transmitter and recipient of hadith."







Edited by Beebok - 25 November 2012 at 11:12am
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Quote Beebok Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2012 at 10:28am
"And of course you see nothing illogical about using the hadith to justify the authenticity of the hadith."

That hadith makes a prediction which came true, and so it adds credence and strengthens evidence for the reliability of hadith.
That should have been obvious to see, unless one is desperate to find fault.
So, there was nothing illogical with Abu Loren's argument.
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