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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:49am

Originally posted by Friendship

Assalami alaika nospam001.
Indeed Muhammad's authority is in reality superior than that of Allah. It is not the Qur'an that is behind al-Qaeeda, Taliban, unemployment, recession and the conflict between the Arabs nations, but rather and precisely the rejection of the Sunna of Muhammad - the Caliphate.
Friendship.

Greetings Friendship,

I respect your idealism but.
The caliphate ruled over the Ottoman empire, and I have been told by separate people that the Muslims hold no fondness for the Ottoman empire. So please explain. How do you explain that?

Salaam,
Caringheart

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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:55am

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Well to be honest, I suspected Friendhip to be peculiar when s/he thinks that the answer to Islam lies with the Jews and their Rabbis.

Friendship is seeking peace through Truth and brotherhood of all, which is the right way to go. He is still somewhat entrenched however in an idealistic belief in Islam. He may have a ways to go to work out his confusion but at least he is seeking a right path. Truth will be revealed by God and only God.

Salaam

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:44pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

The Prophet (pbuh) has been given special dispensation where his followers are to obey him because everything he says id from God.
...

And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy. 3:132

And how does one obey a Messenger? By obeying his Message, of course; but in doing so you are obeying Allah, not Muhammad. You were never told to obey Muhammad as Muhammad, but only in his capacity as a Messenger.

"Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends or protectors, other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition." 7:3 (Ali)

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 3:05am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Friendship is seeking peace through Truth and brotherhood of all, which is the right way to go. He is still somewhat entrenched however in an idealistic belief in Islam. He may have a ways to go to work out his confusion but at least he is seeking a right path. Truth will be revealed by God and only God.

Salaam

Wrong! A muslim who reveres and worships Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) before Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala is not a Muslim. That is clear shirk.

With regarrd to engaging with the Rabbis and the Jews that period is over, they had their chance and they blew it so many times. After Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was chosen as the final messenger to mankind we must follow him for salvation. Otherwise, there is no point in revealing the final message to mankind.

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honeto

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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 10:29am

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by Abu Loren

The Prophet (pbuh) has been given special dispensation where his followers are to obey him because everything he says id from God.... And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy. 3:132

"Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends or protectors, other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition." 7:3 (Ali)

Allah Ho Akbar, you got that 100% right Ron.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Caringheart

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Posted: 24 October 2012 at 12:31pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

You know, no one has ever been able to say to me what it is exactly that the Jews do TODAY, that is so wrong. (and I am not talking about leaders... I am talking about people)
Yes in times past God has been displeased with the Jews, but that was then... what about now... are they judged for all time on past behavior, and can you make one judgement on all Jews? No, you can not. There are those who live by God's laws and in God's ways, and there are those who do not... just as in all groups of people and in all religions.

Edited by Caringheart - 24 October 2012 at 8:23pm

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 29 October 2012 at 12:56am

Originally posted by Caringheart

You know, no one has ever been able to say to me what it is exactly that the Jews do TODAY, that is so wrong. (and I am not talking about leaders... I am talking about people)
Yes in times past God has been displeased with the Jews, but that was then... what about now... are they judged for all time on past behavior, and can you make one judgement on all Jews? No, you can not. There are those who live by God's laws and in God's ways, and there are those who do not... just as in all groups of people and in all religions.

The Jewish people are worshipping God Almighty in a corrupted way, when they rejected Isa (pbuh) as their Messiah they missed the boat, that was the last chance given to Bani Israel.

Sahih International

Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse,

Except for those who repent and correct themselves and make evident [what they concealed]. Those - I will accept their repentance, and I am the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together, 2:159-161

In verse 160 those who repent and correct themselves means that they must accept the True religion of Islam. This was made evident to the Jews by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) but they still rejected him and his message.

This also applies to anyone who wants salvation, they must believe in the final revelation to mankind.

The covenent that was established by Prophet Musa (pbuh) is now null and void as for a covenent to be in force both parties must abide by it. Otherwise there is no need for a new message and revelation from the final messenger to mankind. Also what we have today is three 'forms' of worship in God Almighty Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. This is not acceptable as God wants worship in a manner that he ordained. The Jews and the Christians lost this and only the Muslims are doing this worship in the proper manner prescribed.

Ask yourself what is the point in sending a final revelation to mankind if people are worshipping God any way they pleased? It has to be the way He wants to worship Him. This is the whole reason why the Jews and Christians are asked to submit as Muslims and follow the final way to salvation. He has given as the Straight Way, the only way to salvation.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 29 October 2012 at 9:41pm

@Abu Loren,

Thank you for your reply.

What is the "true religion of Islam"?
How does it disagree with Jewish practice?

Salaam,
Caringheart

Edited by Caringheart - 29 October 2012 at 9:43pm

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Author	Message
Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:49am
	*Originally posted by Friendship* Assalami alaika nospam001. Indeed Muhammad's authority is in reality superior than that of Allah. It is not the Qur'an that is behind al-Qaeeda, Taliban, unemployment, recession and the conflict between the Arabs nations, but rather and precisely the rejection of the Sunna of Muhammad - the Caliphate. Friendship. Greetings Friendship, I respect your idealism but. The caliphate ruled over the Ottoman empire, and I have been told by separate people that the Muslims hold no fondness for the Ottoman empire. So please explain. How do you explain that? Salaam, Caringheart
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:55am
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* Well to be honest, I suspected Friendhip to be peculiar when s/he thinks that the answer to Islam lies with the Jews and their Rabbis. Friendship is seeking peace through Truth and brotherhood of all, which is the right way to go. He is still somewhat entrenched however in an idealistic belief in Islam. He may have a ways to go to work out his confusion but at least he is seeking a right path. Truth will be revealed by God and only God. Salaam
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1399	Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:44pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* The Prophet (pbuh) has been given special dispensation where his followers are to obey him because everything he says id from God. ... And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy. 3:132 And how does one obey a Messenger? By obeying his Message, of course; but in doing so you are obeying Allah, not Muhammad. You were never told to obey Muhammad as Muhammad, but only in his capacity as a Messenger. "Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends or protectors, other than Him.* Little it is ye remember of admonition."* 7:3 (Ali)
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 3:05am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Friendship is seeking peace through Truth and brotherhood of all, which is the right way to go. He is still somewhat entrenched however in an idealistic belief in Islam. He may have a ways to go to work out his confusion but at least he is seeking a right path. Truth will be revealed by God and only God. Salaam Wrong! A muslim who reveres and worships Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) before Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala is not a Muslim. That is clear shirk. With regarrd to engaging with the Rabbis and the Jews that period is over, they had their chance and they blew it so many times. After Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was chosen as the final messenger to mankind we must follow him for salvation. Otherwise, there is no point in revealing the final message to mankind.
	IP Logged

honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 10:29am
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* *Originally posted by Abu Loren* The Prophet (pbuh) has been given special dispensation where his followers are to obey him because everything he says id from God.... And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy. 3:132 And how does one obey a Messenger? By obeying his Message, of course; but in doing so you are obeying Allah, not Muhammad. You were never told to obey Muhammad as Muhammad, but only in his capacity as a Messenger. "Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends or protectors, other than Him.* Little it is ye remember of admonition."* 7:3 (Ali) Allah Ho Akbar, you got that 100% right Ron. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 24 October 2012 at 12:31pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Friendship is seeking peace through Truth and brotherhood of all, which is the right way to go. He is still somewhat entrenched however in an idealistic belief in Islam. He may have a ways to go to work out his confusion but at least he is seeking a right path. Truth will be revealed by God and only God. Salaam *Originally posted by Abu Loren* With regarrd to engaging with the Rabbis and the Jews that period is over, they had their chance and they blew it so many times. After Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was chosen as the final messenger to mankind we must follow him for salvation. Otherwise, there is no point in revealing the final message to mankind. You know, no one has ever been able to say to me what it is exactly that the Jews do TODAY, that is so wrong. (and I am not talking about leaders... I am talking about people) Yes in times past God has been displeased with the Jews, but that was then... what about now... are they judged for all time on past behavior, and can you make one judgement on all Jews? No, you can not. There are those who live by God's laws and in God's ways, and there are those who do not... just as in all groups of people and in all religions. Edited by Caringheart - 24 October 2012 at 8:23pm
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 29 October 2012 at 12:56am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* You know, no one has ever been able to say to me what it is exactly that the Jews do TODAY, that is so wrong. (and I am not talking about leaders... I am talking about people) Yes in times past God has been displeased with the Jews, but that was then... what about now... are they judged for all time on past behavior, and can you make one judgement on all Jews? No, you can not. There are those who live by God's laws and in God's ways, and there are those who do not... just as in all groups of people and in all religions. The Jewish people are worshipping God Almighty in a corrupted way, when they rejected Isa (pbuh) as their Messiah they missed the boat, that was the last chance given to Bani Israel. Sahih International Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse, Except for those who repent and correct themselves and make evident [what they concealed]. Those - I will accept their repentance, and I am the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together, 2:159-161 In verse 160 those who repent and correct themselves means that they must accept the True religion of Islam. This was made evident to the Jews by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) but they still rejected him and his message. This also applies to anyone who wants salvation, they must believe in the final revelation to mankind. The covenent that was established by Prophet Musa (pbuh) is now null and void as for a covenent to be in force both parties must abide by it. Otherwise there is no need for a new message and revelation from the final messenger to mankind. Also what we have today is three 'forms' of worship in God Almighty Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. This is not acceptable as God wants worship in a manner that he ordained. The Jews and the Christians lost this and only the Muslims are doing this worship in the proper manner prescribed. Ask yourself what is the point in sending a final revelation to mankind if people are worshipping God any way they pleased? It has to be the way He wants to worship Him. This is the whole reason why the Jews and Christians are asked to submit as Muslims and follow the final way to salvation. He has given as the Straight Way, the only way to salvation.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 29 October 2012 at 9:41pm
	@Abu Loren, Thank you for your reply. What is the "true religion of Islam"? How does it disagree with Jewish practice? Salaam, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 29 October 2012 at 9:43pm
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